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Old 03-05-2024, 09:12 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,854 posts, read 26,316,632 times
Reputation: 34063

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arya Stark View Post
There are tons of agencys to help people on hard times. No these people are there because they want to do drugs or they are criminals. Homeless camps are full of mentally ill who won't use their meds or people that want to use drugs all day.
No, there are not "Tons of agencies to help people on hard times", if there were we wouldn't have a homeless problem.
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Old 03-05-2024, 09:42 AM
 
27,231 posts, read 43,997,566 times
Reputation: 32362
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle19125 View Post
The state is sitting on a 7 Billion dollar budget surplus for 2024, how about some of that money?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle19125 View Post
Heaven forbid anyone in FL think outside the box.

Alternative housing like prefab container homes cost less than 20K and can be placed anywhere. A parcel of land with running water/plumbing for 50 residents would cost around 1.2 million dollars plus land costs (if any).

Existing vacant commercial buildings is another example with similar purchase/renovation costs and even more residents.

Tiny shed-style homes is another and can be accomplished for a few thousand dollars each and set-up in a setting with campground-like bathroom and laundry amenities. https://www.seattletimes.com/opinion...-a-big-impact/


The point there are many options if at all into humane solutions, albeit that's not a Florida train of thought when it comes to the poor and disenfranchised.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelassie View Post
So exactly what IS your solution to this homeless problem? I've seen plenty of attacks and accusations on your part of posters whose comments you don't like or agree with, but real solutions? How about it?

For instance, what do you do about those homeless individuals who refuse to follow even basic rules to live in those corrugated metal boxes or tiny homes you suggested, or who repeatedly vandalize or destroy the property set up to accomodate them. How about the crime, drug addiction, mental illness that is rampant among the homeless ( no, they aren't all criminals or drug addicts, but they're bound to be affected by this behavior). Believe me, people who actually do deal with the homeless have to face these and a myriad of other issues and it's not as simple as putting up a bunch of corrugated metal boxes or tiny homes and thinking you've solved the problem of homelessness.

Can you answer those questions without another snarky response or personal attack?
Already mentioned if you had performed due diligence versus engaging in attack mode, speaking of "attacks and accusations"...the irony.
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Old 03-05-2024, 10:52 AM
 
Location: SW Florida
14,958 posts, read 12,170,449 times
Reputation: 24854
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle19125 View Post
Already mentioned if you had performed due diligence versus engaging in attack mode, speaking of "attacks and accusations"...the irony.
So your "solution" to the homeless problem is throwing tiny houses and corrugated metal boxcars on vacant land, and oh yeah, throwing some of Florida's excess cash at the problem somehow.... okie dokie then. Might provide some alternatives to the tents under the bridges or in public parks, I will admit.

But, I saw nothing from you about how one might go about solving the issues that are major contributors to many homeless individuals that keep them from participating in the actions we think of as needed to be a contributing member of society, able to provide for ourselves and our loved ones, maintaining a roof over our heads, getting along reasonably well with our fellow man. Those individuals who for their own reasons refuse to follow any rules necessary to maintain any semblance of order in those dwellings set up for their use, individuals addicted to alcohol and/or drugs and refuse any help they might be offered because they don't care to make any efforts to do so, those mentally ill homeless folks who would be better off in an institution but because of laws passed years ago can't be held where they might get help and are released to the streets. People with any or all of the above problems who routinely vandalize or destroy the properties they inhabit. THOSE problems, what are your solutions to those????? You can build all the tiny houses you want, install all the corrugated metal boxes you can find, but the reality is the problem of homelessness will never be solved just by providing space where the homeless can hang their hats, so to speak. Any real, lasting solution must come from addressing the issues that really cause homelessness.

I'm not talking about the individuals, the families that have fallen on hard times,,have lost their livelihoods and homes, have become victims of the spiraling inflation and costs of living as we're currently seeing. Those people have been contributing members of our society, they don't want to be homeless and are willing to take the help they can get, the "leg up" do what they need to do to get out of their homeless situation. In my opinion, any services we can provide to help them get there is worth it, whether it's financial help with food, rent subsidies, help with medical expenses, transportation, job training, education, even substance abuse rehab as needed for those willing to do what it takes to become free of that. Anything we can do, IMO, to help someone help themselves is worthwhile.

This is as I see it, though unlike you I will admit I don't have any good answers to the underlying problems causing chronic homelessness, such mental illness or substance abuse. Also unlike you, I don't see any reason to attack the character, perceived motives, or anything else I may assume about a poster ( especially someone I know nothing about) because I don't like or agree with something he/she said.
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Old 03-05-2024, 12:10 PM
 
27,231 posts, read 43,997,566 times
Reputation: 32362
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelassie View Post
So your "solution" to the homeless problem is throwing tiny houses and corrugated metal boxcars on vacant land, and oh yeah, throwing some of Florida's excess cash at the problem somehow.... okie dokie then. Might provide some alternatives to the tents under the bridges or in public parks, I will admit.

But, I saw nothing from you about how one might go about solving the issues that are major contributors to many homeless individuals that keep them from participating in the actions we think of as needed to be a contributing member of society, able to provide for ourselves and our loved ones, maintaining a roof over our heads, getting along reasonably well with our fellow man. Those individuals who for their own reasons refuse to follow any rules necessary to maintain any semblance of order in those dwellings set up for their use, individuals addicted to alcohol and/or drugs and refuse any help they might be offered because they don't care to make any efforts to do so, those mentally ill homeless folks who would be better off in an institution but because of laws passed years ago can't be held where they might get help and are released to the streets. People with any or all of the above problems who routinely vandalize or destroy the properties they inhabit. THOSE problems, what are your solutions to those????? You can build all the tiny houses you want, install all the corrugated metal boxes you can find, but the reality is the problem of homelessness will never be solved just by providing space where the homeless can hang their hats, so to speak. Any real, lasting solution must come from addressing the issues that really cause homelessness.

I'm not talking about the individuals, the families that have fallen on hard times,,have lost their livelihoods and homes, have become victims of the spiraling inflation and costs of living as we're currently seeing. Those people have been contributing members of our society, they don't want to be homeless and are willing to take the help they can get, the "leg up" do what they need to do to get out of their homeless situation. In my opinion, any services we can provide to help them get there is worth it, whether it's financial help with food, rent subsidies, help with medical expenses, transportation, job training, education, even substance abuse rehab as needed for those willing to do what it takes to become free of that. Anything we can do, IMO, to help someone help themselves is worthwhile.

This is as I see it, though unlike you I will admit I don't have any good answers to the underlying problems causing chronic homelessness, such mental illness or substance abuse. Also unlike you, I don't see any reason to attack the character, perceived motives, or anything else I may assume about a poster ( especially someone I know nothing about) because I don't like or agree with something he/she said.
Unfortunately in this instance FL lives in a full-on capitalist society where those who maintain rental properties can charge whatever they want and increase any percentage they see fit when the demand is there as it is currently. Doing so eliminates possibilities of housing for those just managing to hang on under current conditions minus an increase or those trying to get back to a roof over their heads with a constant moving of the goal posts away from them. Rent Control while bastardized in places like NYC prevents many of these issues and allows all citizens to live with a roof over their head (if inclined and not mentally ill or substance addicted) via subsidies. The State of Florida as mentioned is squatting on 7 billion dollars in surplus so there are definitely funds to bankroll those subsidies.

In terms of attack mode I tend to tire of the consistent negativity and political slant of many who post in this forum and sometimes it's hard to take a breath and step away if you get my drift. If you follow my posts, I tend (unlike many others) to offer helpful advice to those who post here...unlike many who seem to thrive on raining down the negative and/or pushing a political agenda.
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Old 03-05-2024, 12:14 PM
 
17,542 posts, read 39,166,326 times
Reputation: 24315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelassie View Post
So your "solution" to the homeless problem is throwing tiny houses and corrugated metal boxcars on vacant land, and oh yeah, throwing some of Florida's excess cash at the problem somehow.... okie dokie then. Might provide some alternatives to the tents under the bridges or in public parks, I will admit.

But, I saw nothing from you about how one might go about solving the issues that are major contributors to many homeless individuals that keep them from participating in the actions we think of as needed to be a contributing member of society, able to provide for ourselves and our loved ones, maintaining a roof over our heads, getting along reasonably well with our fellow man. Those individuals who for their own reasons refuse to follow any rules necessary to maintain any semblance of order in those dwellings set up for their use, individuals addicted to alcohol and/or drugs and refuse any help they might be offered because they don't care to make any efforts to do so, those mentally ill homeless folks who would be better off in an institution but because of laws passed years ago can't be held where they might get help and are released to the streets. People with any or all of the above problems who routinely vandalize or destroy the properties they inhabit. THOSE problems, what are your solutions to those????? You can build all the tiny houses you want, install all the corrugated metal boxes you can find, but the reality is the problem of homelessness will never be solved just by providing space where the homeless can hang their hats, so to speak. Any real, lasting solution must come from addressing the issues that really cause homelessness.

I'm not talking about the individuals, the families that have fallen on hard times,,have lost their livelihoods and homes, have become victims of the spiraling inflation and costs of living as we're currently seeing. Those people have been contributing members of our society, they don't want to be homeless and are willing to take the help they can get, the "leg up" do what they need to do to get out of their homeless situation. In my opinion, any services we can provide to help them get there is worth it, whether it's financial help with food, rent subsidies, help with medical expenses, transportation, job training, education, even substance abuse rehab as needed for those willing to do what it takes to become free of that. Anything we can do, IMO, to help someone help themselves is worthwhile.

This is as I see it, though unlike you I will admit I don't have any good answers to the underlying problems causing chronic homelessness, such mental illness or substance abuse. Also unlike you, I don't see any reason to attack the character, perceived motives, or anything else I may assume about a poster ( especially someone I know nothing about) because I don't like or agree with something he/she said.
First, I want to say that travelassie has summed up the situation very well: the biggest issue are the underlying problems that she mentioned; no one really knows the best way to address that.

I am proud of my city of Lakeland: Lakeland is a very generous community minded city; and here is a nice article in our magazine Lakelander about the services offered to those who need and want the help:

https://thelakelander.com/changing-h...h's%20rent.

And another with a rendering:

https://www.fox13news.com/news/tiny-...ce-in-lakeland



The city also wants to renovate our central park (Munn Park) downtown where some homeless occasionally hang out, but the city is looking into ways to help those folks rather than just forcing them out.

Here is an article from a couple years ago about the Gospel Village that is creating housing, education and work opportunities for those in need.

https://www.havenmagazines.com/haven...57cacb119.html



So, there are sympathetic people out there trying to do what they can, in a positive way for everyone.
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Old 03-05-2024, 12:21 PM
 
Location: Free State of Florida
25,798 posts, read 12,859,717 times
Reputation: 19359
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrie22 View Post
That's the way Paris is handling it.....relocating the homeless out of town

https://www.euronews.com/2023/12/11/...less-community

"In 2022, there were approximately 50,000 homeless people housed in hotels nightly in the Ile-de-France region, where Paris is located,"

https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/26/europ...0organizations.

" City hall says there are 150,000 people in temporary accommodation in the Paris region"

https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/26/europ...0organizations.
I'd be for housing them out of town, in a remote sight...too far out of town for them to walk or bike into town and beg each day, then return at night.
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Old 03-05-2024, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Free State of Florida
25,798 posts, read 12,859,717 times
Reputation: 19359
What to do with the homeless who refuse help, and refuse shelter that come w/ rules?

Many insist upon sleeping and living in public areas, & refusing assistance.

I say remove them by force if they break any laws. Take them to jail, or if minor infration like loitering, take them to a homeless shelter far from others...out beyond the exburbs.

If they are deemed a threat to themsleves or others, commit them to a mental institution, like we did for 100+ years.

The compassionate way will work w/ a few, but not most, and that way is destroying our public places.
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Old 03-05-2024, 12:33 PM
 
4,211 posts, read 4,465,097 times
Reputation: 10189
I know it is not popular but it has been proposed before - house them in cruise ship(s).

https://www.foxnews.com/us/oakland-h...is-cruise-ship


Would be interested in the overall costs as I think there would be savings in other areas (law enforcement calls spread out, avoiding social service workers) etc.
If they were in one location the requisite social service agency workers can go to them (and find them) AND they can be tasked with learning to care for themselves by keeping their respective rooms clean and the community areas. Good re-education program for those capable.


For the criminal element perhaps a decommissioned oil platform in the gulf would be an interesting experiment or a "three hour cruise" on a decommissioned shipping vessel due to be a barrier reef.



Solutions not "whack a mole" machinations.
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Old 03-05-2024, 06:25 PM
 
30,189 posts, read 11,827,960 times
Reputation: 18698
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRM20 View Post
Prison for not having enough money to pay for housing? That seems overly harsh.
You are free to take in as many as you like.
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Old 03-05-2024, 06:34 PM
 
30,189 posts, read 11,827,960 times
Reputation: 18698
Quote:
Originally Posted by beach43ofus View Post
What to do with the homeless who refuse help, and refuse shelter that come w/ rules?

Many insist upon sleeping and living in public areas, & refusing assistance.

I say remove them by force if they break any laws. Take them to jail, or if minor infration like loitering, take them to a homeless shelter far from others...out beyond the exburbs.

If they are deemed a threat to themsleves or others, commit them to a mental institution, like we did for 100+ years.

The compassionate way will work w/ a few, but not most, and that way is destroying our public places.
You need a separate category of offenders or whatever you call them. Vagrants perhaps. So you build facilities to house them based on what their situation is. Which basically comes down to mental illness or drug addiction. Those truly down on their luck and employable have lots of resources to get back on their feet. The others need to be removed from the streets for their safety and the safety of others. There is no compassion in letting people live in their own filth and be a danger to others.
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