[Lilybeans]

Originally Posted by Mike Peterson

Isn't that what's great about where we live. She has the right to smoke, if she chooses to forgo other things because of it that is her right.

She told you that she doesn't throw butts out the window so why should she be taxed more because some people choose to litter?

She isn't being taxed. The cigarettes are.

Interestingly, I have never met a single smoker who says they toss the butts out the window. It's amazing that no one does that, yet the butts are there.

[florida_guy1234]

Yes, yes, yes.

On a side but related note, Florida's perennial obsession with maintaining artificially low taxes has given us among the worst schools in the country, infrastructure that doesn't meet population growth, and the absolute worst system for child healthcare in the country. Knowledge economy companies, meanwhile, are reticent to locate here because of the educational system. Our teachers and other public workers collect among the lowest salaries in the country. It can be factually established that only 4 or 5 other states have lower tax burdens than Florida. And yet Floridians want even lower taxes! It's truly remarkable. I love the state, but on the issue of taxation Floridians couldn't possibly be more detached from reality...

[floridasandy]

not to derail the topic adam but you must have lived in florida for a very long time. any floridian who has been here awhile can tell you that this state was running a lot better before the tax increases, when we actually had less government spending. here is a classic example of increased tax dollars at work:Crist lives well on official trip -- OrlandoSentinel.com (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/state/orl-crist0708dec07,0,2381266.story - broken link)
taxpayers paid for more than two dozen people to accompany Crist, including a photographer, a spokeswoman, four aides, two agency heads and nine bodyguards. The bodyguards alone spent more than $148,000 on meals, hotels, transportation and incidentals, including nearly $630 in dry cleaning in 12 days! now you know why we don't want higher taxes!

[Tungsten_Udder]

Originally Posted by xlabel

They fall back on lame excuses like health care costs to justify it.

I agree that's lame, and as I noted in an early post, similarly to you in this post, they're inconsistent with it. There are plenty of behaviors that entail greater health risks than avoiding those behaviors, but that the folks who use this argument against smokers do not want to tax additionally.

Also, another tactic they could take is this: if they do not want their taxes to pay for health care related to particular risky behaviors, why don't they suggest that government health care plans should refuse to pay for that health care? I don't understand why they think it's okay for government to pay for it only if you're essentially paying for it yourself anyway through your taxes for that item now, but it's not okay for you to say, "I'd rather not pay for it through my taxes now and have care for my risky behavior not paid for by the government later either". You could decide to pay for it yourself later, to have your private insurance pay for it instead, to have charity groups pay for it, to find a doctor willing to donate his time to treat you (so that he's not paid by the government for your care), etc.

What's probably going on beneath all the rhetoric is that those folks do not smoke themselves, do not like being around smokers, and think it would be better if no one smoked, so they're in favor of anything that makes smoking more difficult. They'd probably prefer if smoking would be banned altogether.

That's why they're in favor of additional taxes on cigarettes, but they're not in favor of additional taxes on power tools, professional sports equipment, etc.

[Tungsten_Udder]

Originally Posted by Lilybeans

She isn't being taxed. The cigarettes are.

Interestingly, I have never met a single smoker who says they toss the butts out the window. It's amazing that no one does that, yet the butts are there.

If we want to stop littering--and I'm all for that, too, a fine for littering should be sufficient. I'm not at all in favor of taxing items that tend to be littered, whatever they might turn out to be. (That is, I'm not in favor of additional taxes on those items, because they tend to be littered.)

[Mike1306]

Originally Posted by Lilybeans

She isn't being taxed. The cigarettes are.

Interestingly, I have never met a single smoker who says they toss the butts out the window. It's amazing that no one does that, yet the butts are there.

"She isn't being taxed. The cigarettes are."

That is a pretty senseless statement if you ask me. The person that is paying out the money is the one that is taxed.

Have you ever smoked lily?

[rusty78]

Although I think cigarette taxes should be increased and the additional money placed into the health care system......my question is......what will be taxed next......Perhaps my gym membership......after all...if I can afford a gym membership...I should also be able to afford an additional tax on it...

The problem with increasing the taxes on one group of people will lead our elected officials into thinking they can tax another group...for what-ever reason they think will be accepted......and we all know...that the additional monies collected will not end up where they should......but instead in the General Budget...where they can do whatever they want with it......

[EscAlaMike]

If you increase taxes on cigarettes, demand will go down and tax revenue will thereby go down. Increasing taxes will create less revenue. Dumb idea.

[florida_guy1234]

Originally Posted by floridasandy

not to derail the topic adam but you must have lived in florida for a very long time. any floridian who has been here awhile can tell you that this state was running a lot better before the tax increases, when we actually had less government spending. here is a classic example of increased tax dollars at work:Crist lives well on official trip -- OrlandoSentinel.com (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/state/orl-crist0708dec07,0,2381266.story - broken link)
taxpayers paid for more than two dozen people to accompany Crist, including a photographer, a spokeswoman, four aides, two agency heads and nine bodyguards. The bodyguards alone spent more than $148,000 on meals, hotels, transportation and incidentals, including nearly $630 in dry cleaning in 12 days! now you know why we don't want higher taxes!

I have lived in Florida for 21 years. And I did not consider Florida under Jeb Bush a paradise - far from it. I cringe at the possibility of him running for a Senate seat. There will always be abuses of taxpayer money, but that is no excuse for a state to maintain such a low level of taxation that it can't fund its own needs. It's almost as if Floridians want to compete with poverty-stricken Alabama for who can tax their citizens the least, like that is some kind of prestigious prize! Insanity...

Florida's taxes are artificially low. The prohibition on a state income tax was written at a time when the state consisted of a few cotton farms, some swamps, and a handful of smaller far-flung cities. Our taxation structure is based on a regressive sales tax, and it is woefully inadequate to deal with a state that has 18+ million people and 4 large metropolitan areas. Florida's tax burden, at 47 out of 50, is one of the lowest in the country already - lower even than Texas! - and yet Republicans want to cut taxes even more. Right-wing nutcases like Marco Rubio want to eliminate property taxes altogether. This is absolute, total madness. What do they want? Some Ayn Rand, John Galtian paradise where only the rich have access to what are considered public services everywhere else? When our schools and child healthcare systems are already nearly dead last in the country, what do they propose we cut? The police?

[Lilybeans]

We start to cut government services that cause more problems than they solve. First up, we eliminate the Department of Children and Families, and the Department of Revenue. The government has no business whatsoever getting involved with families.