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Old 12-15-2007, 07:03 PM
 
226 posts, read 1,122,479 times
Reputation: 82

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Quote:
Originally Posted by leavin_florida View Post
A few years ago I was working at a call center when Verizon went on strike. We were trained to replace the striking workers during the strike. We would be paid $7 an hour without benifits to do the work of the strikers who normally got paid at least twice as much and had benifits. I have had good benifits all of my life because of unions. I felt that being a scab would only add to the lack of medical coverage american workers face - so I quit. I have a problem with companies that outsource to avoid paying people a living wage. Some times outsourcing means sending calls to India, some times it means taking advantage of the low wages in Florida.
good for you....some union former union members in heaven will give you
some blessings for that one.....very awesome thing to do....
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Old 12-15-2007, 07:06 PM
 
226 posts, read 1,122,479 times
Reputation: 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladywithafan View Post
What I make now, in 2007, after 3 years of employment, I made in 1985 when I was 25 and worked in NYC.

Right now....I make $13.65/hour & work in property management on Longboat Key and I'm not an illegal alien.

I have a degree in ADV from Michigan State. My condo association loves me because I am on the ball....however, I was married, came to FL in 1991 with my husband, built a house, had children & then got divorced....

Right to work in Florida means they can fire you because you wore a pink shirt....not right....people can quit a job anytime they want & it doesn't have to be a right to work situation....

we all know that northern states pay more than Florida...it's just a matter of making enough money to get out of Florida to move...hello?
I thought they paid in sunshine out in Fla...you mean that isn't enough?
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Old 12-15-2007, 07:48 PM
LM1
 
Location: NEFL/Chi, IL
833 posts, read 836,647 times
Reputation: 344
Quote:
Originally Posted by socrates1234 View Post
Unions did not single-handedly destroy anything.

Yeah, I know. I said that.
In your blind defense of unions, it seems that you failed to even read my post.
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Old 12-15-2007, 07:49 PM
LM1
 
Location: NEFL/Chi, IL
833 posts, read 836,647 times
Reputation: 344
Quote:
Originally Posted by socrates1234 View Post
Europe is more unionized than the USA, and has a more dynamic economy and currency value....explain that one!
OK, Explained:
The collinearity between "unions" and "currency valuation" absolutely doesn't exist.

It's like saying "THE US HAS MORE ORANGES THAN ZIMBABWE THUS IT PROVES THAT ORANGES EQUAL PROSPERITY SINCE US HAS ORANGES, ZIMBABWE DOESN'T, US IS PROSPEROUS AND ZIMBABWE ISN'T!!"

False corollaries usually undermine whatever position you're taking.
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Old 12-15-2007, 07:53 PM
LM1
 
Location: NEFL/Chi, IL
833 posts, read 836,647 times
Reputation: 344
Quote:
Originally Posted by socrates1234 View Post
good for you....some union former union members in heaven will give you
some blessings for that one....
Yeah, right after they're done negotiating with God for higher wages, less time working and demanding that the conditions in heaven be "improved".
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Old 12-16-2007, 09:07 AM
 
226 posts, read 1,122,479 times
Reputation: 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by LM1 View Post
OK, Explained:
The collinearity between "unions" and "currency valuation" absolutely doesn't exist.

It's like saying "THE US HAS MORE ORANGES THAN ZIMBABWE THUS IT PROVES THAT ORANGES EQUAL PROSPERITY SINCE US HAS ORANGES, ZIMBABWE DOESN'T, US IS PROSPEROUS AND ZIMBABWE ISN'T!!"

False corollaries usually undermine whatever position you're taking.
I see your point per direct causation, but you can say that about your point as well, per that unions directly cause the compromisation of business and ability to compete viv-a-vis non-union companies such as japanese Auto companies, No direct link to prove or disprove that unions do or do not cripple business on a micro or macro economic level. This also gives creedence to the argument that statistics lie, for, indeed, one can spin almost anything where you want it to go. Look at political spin doctors, or PR departments/lobbyists for more proof. You see, when you use logical fallacy arguments to support or debunk statements, you have to apply them to your own as well.
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Old 12-16-2007, 09:25 AM
 
226 posts, read 1,122,479 times
Reputation: 82
I do agree that Detroit really screwed up in the 70's on, as they lost pace with imports. It was pretty sickening, and they did about everything wrong that they could. "They". the unions, management, corporate board, did it as a whole, collective effort. Let's start by stating that the US auto industry didn't really surge ahead till after WW2, when they were the only ones standing, and could export to a battered world. They had this default lead given to them on a platter, and just got fat with it, along with the tailfins and sizes of the cars. Unions AND management AND corporate boards thought they had the world in the palm forever, and got lazy and complacent as a cohesive, collective group.....and all stratched the others back figuratively. The imports were not taken seriously untill it was too late. By then, their own molasses-like dross prevented them from retooling and responding in time to lose mega market share. All those bad decisions, from the Edsel to the Pinto to the K car were ultimately decided and approved by management. Only after many years of poor management decisions was enough market share lost for union legacies to make a prohibitive impact. By then, the US Auto sector was long past losing the game already.
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Old 12-16-2007, 07:20 PM
 
Location: Boca Raton, FL
711 posts, read 1,707,215 times
Reputation: 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by socrates1234 View Post
Florida has a lethargic economy right now, and is hurting per RE because of the low pay rate directly caused by the lack of unions
You have it exactly backwards. Wages are a side effect of the economy, not a driver of it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by socrates1234
Europe is more unionized than the USA, and has a more dynamic economy and currency value....explain that one!
Easy: there's nothing dynamic about Europe's economy. The Euro has risen lately, but that says nothing about European economies, which are as moribund as ever. Unemployment rates are higher, wages are lower, and prices are scandalously high all around, when compared to the US. Europe has a lot fewer small businesses, owing to crushing regulation and fees that make smaller businesses uneconomic and expensive to start up. I can start a new corporation in Florida for $150 and a 1-page filing with the Secretary of State. Try that in "dynamic" Europe!
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Old 12-16-2007, 07:29 PM
 
Location: Boca Raton, FL
711 posts, read 1,707,215 times
Reputation: 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by socrates1234 View Post
BTW, would you prefer your company decides whether to retain you or get rid of you carte blanche?
Yes. Easy to fire is easy to hire. If you don't like that, move to France. It's almost impossible to get fired. Consequently, it's also almost impossible to get hired.
Quote:
Originally Posted by socrates1234
I would imagine that
most folks would like something to stand in the way of management sending out pink slips at will.
I imagine so, but most folks don't think through the consequences of their desires.
Quote:
Originally Posted by socrates1234
I don't get any more
sleep thinking that corporation man is unencumbered of unions.........just think of it, without unions, you are totally beholden
to the "good graces" of corporate management and the gov't that is in their back pocket....
Have you worked for some terrible companies? I've never seen management as capricious and devoid of sound judgment as you portray here.
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Old 12-16-2007, 09:04 PM
 
Location: Florida
2,209 posts, read 7,129,765 times
Reputation: 630
Come for ours and expect the fight of your life.

Life's tough. Wear a helmet.
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