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Old 12-16-2007, 09:10 PM
 
Location: Florida
2,209 posts, read 7,130,668 times
Reputation: 630

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Randian, the dollar is dropping partially because the US 's socialism is almost out of control and it looks like it will grow even more so. There is no way to pay the debt that stands right now without continued growth ( growth of government = less freedom) of government and higher "fees" ( taxes) and a further depriciation of the dollar as they have the printing presses working overtime just to pay interest.

The debt stands at a little over 9 Trillion. Then the unfunded liabilities go as high as 40-60 Trillion more.

Did you know that taxes which is of course in marx's ten point plank are just a point or two away from communist china ? And the manufacturing base is essentially gone and lawn guys expecting 40 bucks an hour here. Get real.

Sad but it's true.
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Old 12-16-2007, 10:45 PM
 
226 posts, read 1,122,538 times
Reputation: 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by randian View Post
You have it exactly backwards. Wages are a side effect of the economy, not a driver of it.

Easy: there's nothing dynamic about Europe's economy. The Euro has risen lately, but that says nothing about European economies, which are as moribund as ever. Unemployment rates are higher, wages are lower, and prices are scandalously high all around, when compared to the US. Europe has a lot fewer small businesses, owing to crushing regulation and fees that make smaller businesses uneconomic and expensive to start up. I can start a new corporation in Florida for $150 and a 1-page filing with the Secretary of State. Try that in "dynamic" Europe!
"Dynamic" USA has a credit-problem so large that, not only is the mortgage origination business insolvent, but the US dollar is being propped up by undynamic but solvent Europe and Asia. Its easy to be "dynamic" when you are playing with other people's money. No different then someone having fun blowing money in a casino handed to him in lieu of cash IOU's. We are so "dynamic" as a country that we let a huge number of families go without health insurance. We are so "dynamic" that we refuse to fund a proper education system, and have some of the lowest test scores and worst elementary and high schools in the industrialized world. We are dismantling our middle-class, and creating a huge pool of low-skilled young adults who will be working at retail/service jobs for their working lives. We waste gas and energy and have no game plan per where we and our transportation grid will be in 10 years, as we grow exponentially, largely from unskilled legal and illegal immigrants who are one-sidedly siphoning off the tax base and resources that we have left, that could be going towards maintaining education and crumbling infrastructure. Lastly, my main point, that that "dynamic" economy, the real part that isn't just the ponzi game of real estate appreciation and ATM Machine home equity transfers, credit-driven spending, and unsustainable tax cuts, is sustainable only as long as the currency in question is solvent. Once that currency is deemed tarnished by the solvent investment world, the game is over, and everyone can put their gamepieces away....

Last edited by socrates1234; 12-16-2007 at 11:02 PM..
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Old 12-17-2007, 08:52 AM
 
Location: Florida
4,834 posts, read 13,012,727 times
Reputation: 2193
Quote:
Originally Posted by socrates1234 View Post
I thought they paid in sunshine out in Fla...you mean that isn't enough?
Sunshine pay would be great today with the present temperature in Sarasota of 47 degrees...and sunny.

Everyone thought it was great in the 80's, but now, as those boomers hit up their medical insurance for melanomas due to sunshine, it's not so funny!
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Old 12-17-2007, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Boca Raton, FL
711 posts, read 1,707,486 times
Reputation: 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTudo View Post
Did you know that taxes which is of course in marx's ten point plank are just a point or two away from communist china ? And the manufacturing base is essentially gone and lawn guys expecting 40 bucks an hour here. Get real.
No surprise there, most of the 1930s Communist Party's platform has been implemented. Taxes are a problem, but they are a symptom of the real problem: out of control spending. Our current debt would be ok if Congress wouldn't keep adding to it.

Our manufacturing base is so gone: Industrial Output Growth Signals Strong Economy, Manufacturing in Decline?
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Old 12-17-2007, 09:46 AM
 
Location: Boca Raton, FL
711 posts, read 1,707,486 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by socrates1234 View Post
"Dynamic" USA has a credit-problem so large that, not only is the mortgage origination business insolvent, but the US dollar is being propped up by undynamic but solvent Europe and Asia.
Mortgage origination isn't insolvent, it's undergoing a tightening of the available supply. Only a small percentage of loans are in default. Billions of dollars will be lost, which in the scheme of an economy as large as ours is trivial.
Quote:
Originally Posted by socrates1234
We are so "dynamic" as a country that we let a huge number of families go without health insurance.
Health insurance != health care. Why don't you buy your own instead of stealing from somebody else? While you're at it, get government out of the business of regulating what an insurance policy must include. Insurance would be a lot more affordable if you could refuse the useless junk government says you must have. Mental health services? Don't want them, but I still have to pay for them. Pre-natal care? Useless, I can't get pregnant, but I still have to pay for it. Ad infinitum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by socrates1234
We are so "dynamic" that we refuse to fund a proper education system, and have some of the lowest test scores and worst elementary and high schools in the industrialized world.
Our education system is hardly underfunded. Look at school budgets sometime. If anything, it's grossly overfunded. The problem is administrations and teachers that have no incentive to educate, because failure brings bigger and bigger budgets. "If only we had more money", they say. What happened to the billions you said would "fix the problem"? That's why education should never have been taken over by the government. In the private sector, failure means death of the business. That sort of thing sharpens the mind when serving the customer (the kids).
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Old 12-17-2007, 01:24 PM
 
3 posts, read 6,792 times
Reputation: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by discontented lot owner View Post
Ive been in Florida since l987. I remember in S. California seeing adds on TV mentioning that Orlando had more jobs than people which was very correct-IF YOU DONT MIND MAKING 4 TO 5 BUCKS AN HOUR IN THE HUMID HOT SUN WORKING HARD LABOR CONSTRUCTION. Of course Florida was a very cheap place to live back then.
FLORIDA AINT CHEAP NO MORE Would it be out of line to ask for a higher wage???
Does everyone feel (except you cheapskate wealthy employers that will NEVER pay a decent wage)that Florida would really be better off as a UNION STATE since we have already proven that right to work eliminates the middle class, and only benefits the SLAVE MASTERS.????


THE MAN KEEPS YOU DOWN

Move to one of the thriving union communities, like say Toledo or Flint, join up, get a baseball bat, walk the lines, do batting practice on the scabs, and trash any surrounding Toyotas and Hondas. Oh wait, there's no more JOBS left up there. Gee maybe it had something to do with being closed-shop union? And doggonit you were owed a $25/hr job with your HS Diploma because you were born on US soil. Write your congressman.
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Old 12-17-2007, 05:56 PM
 
Location: Midwestern Dystopia
2,419 posts, read 3,239,950 times
Reputation: 3071
Quote:
Originally Posted by LM1 View Post
When GM spends more on healthcare for their retired workers than they do on the various metals they use to actually make the cars, this is a HUGE problem.
I'm sorry but this speaks to the absolute rip off job that the American Pharmacutical and Insurance Industry is doing to the American people. When you break you arm in Belgium it costs $250 to fix from the setting, to the cast to taking off the cast , that same thing in America would cost thousands upon thousands of dollars. How come so many of the exact same presciption med's cost literally half in Canada as they do in America? We're being ripped off and the governement doesn't do a thing about it.
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Old 12-18-2007, 12:46 PM
 
Location: Florida
4,834 posts, read 13,012,727 times
Reputation: 2193
Quote:
Originally Posted by randian View Post
Mortgage origination isn't insolvent, it's undergoing a tightening of the available supply. Only a small percentage of loans are in default. Billions of dollars will be lost, which in the scheme of an economy as large as ours is trivial.
If there's such a small % in default...well you know what I'm about to say, give it another six to eight months, when the ARMS adjust & tell me your percentages in your town...

Health insurance != health care. Why don't you buy your own instead of stealing from somebody else? While you're at it, get government out of the business of regulating what an insurance policy must include. Insurance would be a lot more affordable if you could refuse the useless junk government says you must have. Mental health services? Don't want them, but I still have to pay for them. Pre-natal care? Useless, I can't get pregnant, but I still have to pay for it. Ad infinitum.

Ok, so we should have "add ons" to our health coverage....gee, hope you don't drink, smoke, do drugs or run red lights, there could be penalties if the above is not listed in your coverage & you are caught on video....

Our education system is hardly underfunded. Look at school budgets sometime. If anything, it's grossly overfunded. The problem is administrations and teachers that have no incentive to educate, because failure brings bigger and bigger budgets. "If only we had more money", they say. What happened to the billions you said would "fix the problem"? That's why education should never have been taken over by the government. In the private sector, failure means death of the business. That sort of thing sharpens the mind when serving the customer (the kids).
Obviously, you have no children or grandchildren in school or else you would understand the budget issues at hand. Gee, maybe you weren't allowed art as an elective somewhere along the way...many children today aren't even getting exposure to exercise...budget cuts...you know.
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Old 12-18-2007, 03:52 PM
 
1,572 posts, read 3,806,025 times
Reputation: 524
Quote:
Originally Posted by randian View Post
Unemployment rates are higher, wages are lower, and prices are scandalously high all around, when compared to the US. Europe has a lot fewer small businesses, owing to crushing regulation and fees that make smaller businesses uneconomic and expensive to start up. I can start a new corporation in Florida for $150 and a 1-page filing with the Secretary of State. Try that in "dynamic" Europe!
That's just a bunch of garbage. Europe has plenty of business and industry, while the US does not. This weekend I went to a store and bought something made in the EU- motorcycle grips (Italy). The only bike stuff I have made in the US is a Gore-Tex Windstropper bandana (Aerostitch, made in Minnesota... not a "right to work" state) and a pair of rather plain deerskin gloves (which are inferior actually to the gloves you get from Pakistan). My boots are made in Italy, my Knox armor is made in the UK. Sure sounds great for an economic region with a moribund economy with crushing regulation.

Totally unrelated, but I've got a Bodum coffee press made in Denmark, and I bought it at Target, not some fancy boutique store that caters only to rich people. I can't find much else kitchen related actually made in the US. Maybe plastic spoons, does that count?
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Old 12-18-2007, 05:16 PM
 
Location: Boca Raton, FL
711 posts, read 1,707,486 times
Reputation: 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnulus View Post
That's just a bunch of garbage. Europe has plenty of business and industry, while the US does not.
As if: Industrial Output Growth Signals Strong Economy, Manufacturing Decline?

The numbers say you're wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnulus
This weekend I went to a store and bought something made in the EU- motorcycle grips (Italy). The only bike stuff I have made in the US is a Gore-Tex Windstropper bandana (Aerostitch, made in Minnesota... not a "right to work" state) and a pair of rather plain deerskin gloves (which are inferior actually to the gloves you get from Pakistan). My boots are made in Italy, my Knox armor is made in the UK. Sure sounds great for an economic region with a moribund economy with crushing regulation.
Why didn't you buy all US stuff? Because you got a better deal outsourcing your needs to Europe. Your standard of living is therefore higher than it would otherwise be. Manufacturing your own stuff is stupid, if you could be doing something else with higher value instead. That's true even if you're better at manufacturing than your supplier is. Comparative advantage: it's a wealth-making idea.

They're a lot poorer than we are. That should be a big clue we're doing something right. Never take success advice from somebody less successful than you are.
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