[tallrick]

With all the "master planned" communities filling Florida with selfish "new urbanist" HOA's and bulldozing nature, is there any town, or community known for "usonian" or modern architecture in harmony with nature? Residents who are self-sufficient, and do not suffer under opressive HOA's or communist zoning departments? The community would be comprised of mostly owner/builders who preserved as much as nature, and may be smart enough to not have things like lawns to scar the land. I am trying to figure out why people would want to live in a home vulnerable to disasters and that requires constant maintenance, sucking money that could otherwise be used for better things. If property taxes can be controlled, this type of community would be an asset to Florida, and solve the tough insurance, and environmental issues of the state. Does this already exist, or is there anyone out there who would enjoy this lifestyle?

[TriMT7]

Originally Posted by tallrick

With all the "master planned" communities filling Florida with selfish "new urbanist" HOA's and bulldozing nature

It's the LACK of "master planned" communities and LACK of new urbanist designs that have screwed up Florida development patterns, not the other way around!

I am still flabbergasted by your assertion on another thread that "zoning" is the problem. LACK of zoning regulation leads to development driven SOLELY by the profit margin. And since you don't like "communism," I'd imagine you'd be all in favor of developers who come in and clear cut the land for profit. To deny them that "right" smacks of socialism, no?

Originally Posted by tallrick

Residents who are self-sufficient, and do not suffer under opressive HOA's or communist zoning departments? The community would be comprised of mostly owner/builders who preserved as much as nature, and may be smart enough to not have things like lawns to scar the land.

You could probably find small towns that would allow you the opportunity to buy up some land and live this way in Northern Florida. A "whole community" of that in Florida? Most likely not, since it represents a leisure lifestyle not typically found in rural North Florida.... and to state otherwise would concede the "car culture" that type of development would be dependent on (which is hardly eco-friendly).

Originally Posted by tallrick

I am trying to figure out why people would want to live in a home vulnerable to disasters and that requires constant maintenance, sucking money that could otherwise be used for better things. If property taxes can be controlled, this type of community would be an asset to Florida, and solve the tough insurance, and environmental issues of the state. Does this already exist, or is there anyone out there who would enjoy this lifestyle?

It's a good idea on its face, and I could see it being attractive to a certain kind of buyer/resident. I could see it thriving as a town.... or a subdivision zoned for that type of development somewhere. However, it's just not sustainable as a pattern for all of Florida. This isn't the Dakotas or Wyoming. Having 18 million+ people spread out on acreage just doesn't seem like the best way to conserve nature, and people need to work somewhere!!

[tallrick]

Zoning is just plain wrong. In order to build the developers need infrastructure, just let them pay for it instead of the counties. It would be a lot better to have homes spread out all over the state than having vacant land just waiting for the next stupid land development project. Nobody will build a skyscraper in the middle of a field because it just isn't profitable.

[Prichard]

Nobody will build a skyscraper in the middle of a field because it just isn't profitable.

Oh, ya they would! Someone did just that off of Maitland Blvd. west of I-4 "The Summit", at a time when there was nothing but fields and woodlands surrounding this area.

Developers do pay for their own infrastructure - they do it both directly and indirectly by paying impact fees. Developers pay for water, sewer lines, roads, drainage and drainage ponds, electric service, road widening if necessary, etc. Then they pay impact fees based on ADT's (average daily trips, or auto traffic) school board impact fees, and a whole hoste of other impact fees. Some get passed on to end buyers; some don't. Just depends on the market.

Tall Rick just wants a complete moritorium on any building in the State of Florida. I can't blame him - it probably would be best.

[TriMT7]

Originally Posted by tallrick

Zoning is just plain wrong.

Zoning = smart (inevitable) growth

Non-Zoning = Factories right next to single family homes right next to tall office buildings next to a dump = not-smart growth.

Originally Posted by tallrick

It would be a lot better to have homes spread out all over the state than having vacant land just waiting for the next stupid land development project.

But that is EXACTLY what you get when you have "no zoning."

Your vision is endless sprawl if implemented on a grand scale. 18 million people cannot live on 5 acre lots each. PLUS, since you don't like zoning, any developer can come in and build a massive condo right up to your property line and call it "Happy Acres Nature View Condos". Thankfully, if you ever WERE to find acreage somewhere, local zoning ordinances would be such to keep housing density low in your area, so that would never come to pass for you!

Originally Posted by tallrick

Nobody will build a skyscraper in the middle of a field because it just isn't profitable.

Yeah, and nobody would ever build a castle and a big golf ball on swamp land in Central Florida and expect millions of people a year to visit either, would they?

[tallrick]

Ok here's the thing. Let's say that I move to the country and build my home the way I like it. Then comes the developer wanting to buy the property next door. Being far from the city why in the world would someone want to buy condos there? Without zoning there is nothing to stop me or my neighbors from filling the yard with tons of junk, ruining the property values of the new development. Developers know this, and decide to build closer to the city, where the neighborhood is established. The lack of zoning restraints helps lower property values in the city, making land more affordable to build on. Of course the prime waterfront and established neighborhoods will be more valuable and rif raf will not move in.

Zoning doesn't stop development, it just channels the wealth to a more select few. Politics helps investors make a killing from "planned growth". As for building a factory next to homes, when was the last time anyone built a factory in the US? They seem to be demolishing them for new retail and residential development! When the automobile is phased out, many people will return to the cities. Also more home-based businesses will enable people to travel less, another benefit of no zoning. While it may be chaotic at first, I think that a lack of zoning would eventually be a good thing. The government could then concentrate on securing its borders and cut off illegal immigration completely. The resulting higher standard of living from eliminating zoning would encourage less children.

Yes if I had my way all development would end. Other than a massive disaster, I can't see how this can happen.

[TriMT7]

Originally Posted by tallrick

Without zoning there is nothing to stop me or my neighbors from filling the yard with tons of junk, ruining the property values of the new development.

WITH proper and smart zoning a condo development won't be built in yours and your country neighbor's area in the first place because of use and density restrictions! There will BE NO NEED to slop up your yard (whatever happened to your desire for "low impact" on nature? Rusty cars and tons of junk strewn around is not my idea of harmony with nature) and live like trash to keep development away because the zoning does it for you!

There are lots of areas throughout Florida that are zoned for 1 home per acre or 1 home per X acres. If you want to preserve the land from zoning changes, enter into an association (GASP!! Not one of THOSE!) with your neighbors and create perpetual restrictive covenants for density that will run with the land.

Originally Posted by tallrick

The lack of zoning restraints helps lower property values in the city, making land more affordable to build on.

But people don't WANT land values to remain low. The average person invests in a home with the thought of selling it later for profit. If your household doesn't itemize deductions to take the tax advantages of having a mortgage, then having land that stagnates or depreciates in value is just dumb, and you might as well just rent!

Originally Posted by tallrick

Of course the prime waterfront and established neighborhoods will be more valuable and rif raf will not move in.

On the contrary, zoning and land use controls are the only things in many areas that have prevented developers from coming in and clearcutting the beach vegetation to erect 50 story condos on the beach! Environmental degredation on a major scale caused by money lust and greed.

Originally Posted by tallrick

Zoning doesn't stop development, it just channels the wealth to a more select few.

I still don't understand your logic at all. In counties across Florida YOU as an individual buyer can by single plots in non-subdivisions and build whatever you want as long as it conforms to the ZONING of that area. Port St. Lucie, for example, has thousands of lots zoned residential. How is that "channeling" wealth to anyone?

You don't seem to understand that WITHOUT zoning, developers have an EASIER time building and developing vacant land, because they won't have to go through the platting process, etc.

Originally Posted by tallrick

As for building a factory next to homes, when was the last time anyone built a factory in the US?

The Japanese have been building car plants here. And municipal utilities, etc. are types of high-industrial processes that need to go SOMEWHERE. How'd you like it if it was "in your backyard".... LITERALLY?

Originally Posted by tallrick

When the automobile is phased out, many people will return to the cities. Also more home-based businesses will enable people to travel less, another benefit of no zoning.

Your "prescription" for living.... spacing out on large parcels of land is NOT conducive to "phasing out" the automobile! However, New Urbanism, your foe, IS.

Originally Posted by tallrick

The government could then concentrate on securing its borders and cut off illegal immigration completely. The resulting higher standard of living from eliminating zoning would encourage less children.

Yes if I had my way all development would end. Other than a massive disaster, I can't see how this can happen.

If Americans had "any less children" we would have negative population growth. Negative population growth = dying economy = no home based businesses.

But umm....hmmm.... based on your philosophy on life I definitely think Florida is NOT the place for you. Wyoming or Montana, maybe!!