[miamiteacher]

What do you think about the walk outs and sick out taking place and being planned?

[Schrodinger's Kittens]

I don't blame them one bit. DadeCo has done just about everything imaginable to make their lives hell. While I don't have kids and therefore don't directly "use" the educational system, I had teachers whose influence I still feel today and I am a better person for it. I have a lot of respect for anyone who takes on that job. But in Dade it seems to be "all the responsibility, none of the authority," and jerked around on their pay to boot.

Is it "illegal" for teachers to strike in the same way it is for police and firefighters in Dade?

[miamiteacher]

First, thank you for the kind words for us teachers. Moderator cut: No Solicitation Allowed Yes, it is illegal for us to strike, we can use personal and sick days (most people I have spoken to will take Monday off), I HATE for it to come to this but I fear what will happen if this passes. Forgive me parents, I will not be there and I will not be sending my son to school.

Problems I see:
1. Areas difficult to test (PE, Art, Special Needs in all areas, etc.)
2. Lack of a framework (pass the bill then figure out how to enact it)
3. Adanced degrees not taken into account.
4. Children from one year are compared to children of the next. Not children tested at the begining of the year then again at the end to see gains.
5. Who will teach in the inner city, special needs, pregnant girls, at-risk students, etc.....?

This one was brought up by one of my students: "Cool if we don't like a teacher we can screw them over!" This particular angel also will answer "c" on a true/false question.

[rogerbacon]

I can't see why anyone would have a problem with pay being tied to performance. It is with every other job so what makes teachers a special exempt class? Maybe there can be a better way to determine that performance but this is at least a move in the right direction. Goodbye to the old communist style system of paying all teachers with X years the same.
If they strike they should be fired just like the air traffic controllers were in the 80's. There are plenty of professionals who could fill in teaching and do a fine job. There are a lot of people out of work that could use the money.

[miamiteacher]

Originally Posted by rogerbacon

I can't see why anyone would have a problem with pay being tied to performance. It is with every other job so what makes teachers a special exempt class? Maybe there can be a better way to determine that performance but this is at least a move in the right direction. Goodbye to the old communist style system of paying all teachers with X years the same.
If they strike they should be fired just like the air traffic controllers were in the 80's. There are plenty of professionals who could fill in teaching and do a fine job. There are a lot of people out of work that could use the money.

You don't think that the problems I listed are valid? As far as pay tied to performance, should a fireman who fails to put out a blazing gas station fire get paid less than one who puts out a small roadside fire? Should a cop who fails to stop a crackhead in a Corvette get paid less than one who stops grandma who rolled through a stop sign in her Toyota? This bill will stop paying extra to teachers with advanced degrees or national board certification; this is a move in the right direction? I don't see myself as a special exempt class. I'm not CEO of a failing bank asking to be bailed out and get a bonus on top of it all. I am a teacher with a gas station on fire and a crackhead in a Corvette. Communist style system is the state in control and lack of individual choice. That is what this bill will do! I want academic freedom to do what I do best - teach. If you want to fairly evaluate the outcome of my efforts I would love it! I'll prove myself. This bill is poorly planned. It is going after a sick patient with a butcher knife without an x-ray; saying we'll cut him open and see what's wrong while he bleeds to death on the table.

Let's see all those highly qualified, fine professionals who will come in and do my job; according to the bill this will be the ad:

Wanted - teacher
Working conditions- 30 minutes for lunch; restroom breaks every hour and 40 minutes; 35 children of various achievement, emotional, and motivational levels.
Salary- $17,000 per year (may make up to $33,500 based on some kind of test we'll come up with sometime)
Benefits-Basic health care for employee only, Holidays and Summer off! Limited use of limited resources and, in most places, books (in questionable shape) may be supplied.
Requirements- Bachelor degree (anything higher doesn't matter)
Certification test passed (aprox. $350 to take test)
Certification certificate ($75 one year temporary $75 each subject area)
Must be able to do multiple tasks.
One year employment guaranteed!
***All terms listed are subject to change at any time for any reason, there are no guarantees (even if promised by contract) on the guarantees.

I bet the best of the best will be lining up to replace the horrible teachers we currently have.

[fbam]

As a firefighter I can say that we are held to that standard. if we fail again and again we will lose our jobs. Period. Florida schools are horrid and something needs to be done about the teachers union. All unions are corrupt but yours has done more harm to this country than possibly anything else. You are bullies. If you strike you should be fired. If you cant teach you should be fired.

"Who will teach in the inner city, special needs, pregnant girls, at-risk students, etc.....?"
that is such b.s. who is teaching the inner city kids now? I was an "at-risk student" with a 136 I.Q. I was taken out of advanced classes where i was making A's into drop out prevention because both my brothers dropped out. They saw a "pattern". In actuality they created the pattern by sticking me in that program. the teachers just sat there doing nothing all day. They let kids come to class high, drunk, tripping, etc, etc... I went straight down hill when I got in there. I had one teacher that actually made a difference. He saved my life and many many other kids as well. but almost everyone did well in his class and actually learned something. He will be rewarded. The others should not.

And please don't gripe about your pay. like you said you get off holidays and summer oh and spring break and teacher planning days and every weekend. you get planning periods and teacher aids. If its really about the kids the money shouldn't matter. There are a lot of firefighters who don't even make $10hr to risk there life everyday and they do it because they want to help people. sure we all would like to make more money but is it about you or the kids? you have to admit there are bad teachers that would be chased out of the profession. While great teachers are rewarded for there success and in turn share their successful styles or methods with others and really help the kids which helps society.

[miamiteacher]

Originally Posted by fbam

As a firefighter I can say that we are held to that standard. if we fail again and again we will lose our jobs. Period. Florida schools are horrid and something needs to be done about the teachers union. All unions are corrupt but yours has done more harm to this country than possibly anything else. You are bullies. If you strike you should be fired. If you cant teach you should be fired.

"Who will teach in the inner city, special needs, pregnant girls, at-risk students, etc.....?"
that is such b.s. who is teaching the inner city kids now? I was an "at-risk student" with a 136 I.Q. I was taken out of advanced classes where i was making A's into drop out prevention because both my brothers dropped out. They saw a "pattern". In actuality they created the pattern by sticking me in that program. the teachers just sat there doing nothing all day. They let kids come to class high, drunk, tripping, etc, etc... I went straight down hill when I got in there. I had one teacher that actually made a difference. He saved my life and many many other kids as well. but almost everyone did well in his class and actually learned something. He will be rewarded. The others should not.

And please don't gripe about your pay. like you said you get off holidays and summer oh and spring break and teacher planning days and every weekend. you get planning periods and teacher aids. If its really about the kids the money shouldn't matter. There are a lot of firefighters who don't even make $10hr to risk there life everyday and they do it because they want to help people. sure we all would like to make more money but is it about you or the kids? you have to admit there are bad teachers that would be chased out of the profession. While great teachers are rewarded for there success and in turn share their successful styles or methods with others and really help the kids which helps society.

Read the bill. The people who placed you in the program looked at statistics and numbers. It wasn't the teachers, they don't place the kids (not today). I look at a kid and see the potential, not the circumstance,. The good teacher that you had will not stick it out (and if he does, bless him)! Actually, look up that teacher that made this difference and ask him what he thinks. See if he, feels that this is best, go from there. I take what my kids (students) say very seriously. They DO NOT want to havea year based on one test, on one day. FCAT is bad enough. The teachers that you had are the ones that need to be removed by effective means, and I am sorry that was your experience. The teacher you spoke of, do you think he will stay under these conditions; and enjoy the changes?

As regard to your profession, I am concerned because if you are treated this way and you need support in changing how you are paid - number of fires put out = pay. I will join in any changes you may want to make. It just doesn't seem fair to people who work as hard as you do and risk as much as you do!

[fbam]

I can admit when I'm wrong and after reading more I can say that I fell for the act of calling it "performance based pay".... I think that is definitely needed but if they aren't planning to support quality teachers then it's just going to further damage a broken system. That's why my family & I just moved to Connecticut- better schools.

[alx185]

i am a student of palmetto high school (miami dade) and i would just like to say a few things on the subject.
i am a ninth grader this year and i cant tell you all from being in the school system that the truly great teachers dont need (financially) to teach. they do it because they want to (and they wont put up with much more bulls hit from the administration).
every one in this country should be legitimately scared (i know i am) of a vastly uneducated and manipulable populous being able to vote.
this bill wold bring us (the students) eight more standerdized tests a year one at the begining and end of each nine weeks period. the way thigs are now, teachers spend the first half of the year teaching s how to pass the FCAT. if this bill becomes law, we will only learn how to do well on the performance tests.
as for the firering of bad teachers, we already have a system for that. each rookie tacher is supposed to be observed (by an administrator for at least half an hour) once a year and for veteran teachers i think its once every three years. the fact of the matter is that this doesnt ge done. i have a teacher that has been teachng for 18 years and has been observed twice.
under this bill, where a teachers salary is based on the performance of their students, no one will want to teach the remedial students or the exeptional ones. wo will teach in poorer areas. and how will the salaries of art, phtography, and musc teachers be weighed?
my school has a uniform, and an email goes out to the teachers every morning, telling the teachers to report all uniform violations in 1st perid or 4th period on another day. my enlish teacher emediatly hits "delete" , she has more productive things to do than check if everyone shir has the emblem or if everyone id wearing their ID
my teacher is sure her name is on some list somewear (in the principals office) with a big black mark next to it. she is an exelant teacher and under ths new bill, when her contract comes up for renewal by the principal each year, she would be out of a job thankfull, she is one of the few that teaches for the love of it and and doent (fiscally) need to teach.
having said all of this, the education system as is, is far from perfet. a teacher with tenure could sit naked on a desk smoking crack before she got fired. but this bill is not the answer and will only make the situation worse
Alex Ramos [mod]Contact via DM[/mod]

[doggiebus]

Originally Posted by miamiteacher

This one was brought up by one of my students: "Cool if we don't like a teacher we can screw them over!" This particular angel also will answer "c" on a true/false question.

But they are screwing themselves too, so not a win for the student.