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and maybe you have the money to buy only "organic" most of us do not.
I don't anymore. I'm working diligently to turn that around. But in the mean time there are 2 staples that I don't compromise on. Or put another way, that I treat myself to. And that is organic olive oil and spinach. Especially since that is always part of my 2 main meals everyday.
A person does what they can w/ in their financial means. I totally get where you're coming from.
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Originally Posted by ScoopLV
Organic doesn't mean "expensive." You can buy from a food co-op (if one exists in your area, and most places that's a yes). I pay $25 for a laundry basket full of organic produce every week.
True! Although I've never done that only because I can't control which vegetables I'm getting. But I have known people that did, and loved it. Local, organic and at a great price! Plus it's wonderful to support your local farmers
Word on the street is; avoid anything claimed sourced from Italy (who have historically been the worst at adulterating their products) and Spain. Greece seems to have avoided the adulterating issues that sourced Italian and Spanish go through (through in there the Tunisian, etc claimed sources as well). And sorry, Pompeian is well known for adulteration, you can actually taste that it is, it is like they do not even try to hide it.
The rule of thumb is; the less sources there are for the olives, the less prone it is for adulteration. Oils that claim something like "we get our olives from here, here, here, and there" are more prone to adulteration, thus more likely to be adulterated.
The best bet right now, until the FDA gets off their rear end, is sourced only from Greece, the US, or Australia; these are most likely not to be adulterated.
How do you know that? That sound anecdotal to me.
I have bought olive oil for restaurant, large hotels, foodservice organization and suppliers and I uncovered numerous incidents of fraud. Many I reported and many I stopped but they just open up shop somewhere else. Once I demanded a certificate of origin and it was fraudulent. It matters not if the olives come from one region or many--there will be fraud. I have learned that if there is money involved then any food producer, large or small, will be tempted to commit fraud. It makes no difference if its Italian, Grecian or American product. It matters not if it comes from a distance or from the local "farmer in the dell"--there will be fraud in all food products.
I was in a very large natural market chain,that you all drool over, and I watched them unpack their brand of olive oil. The jar had no address of originate or distributor or manufacturer, nor did the box. That clearly violates federal law in food labeling and packaging. It was obviously a fraudulent product. I wrote to them and complained--never got a response. If I was working and I was buying that garbage wholesale--I would have their face against the wall.
Today I do not care as I have in past dealt with the FDA and the Dept. of Agriculture and they are toothless lions. They may mean well and write good specifications but the enforcement is many times just a roar. In many products where there is no history of harm or there will be no anticipated harm, like olive oil, there is no inspection. In those cases, the government hopes the industry will police itself. Yea, like having the wolves guard the hen house!
Olive oil has been adulterated since ancient times. Many times it was adulterated with hazelnut oil. Think about this: perhaps the concept that olive oil is healthy is not because it is the olives, it may be the adulterant because that is more efficacious to health. Today Hazelnuts are expensive because of this current fad of hazelnut butters.
That is BS to say you can taste olive oil that it is adulterated. It takes a chemical analysis or at least trained professional to make that determination. Any large producer knows exactly what to mix and add to make it appear as a better product. Color is no determination as they can crush stems and leaves. They can add other cheaper food oils.
So, what do you do? After years of being annoyed and bothered. I look at the label and it is clearly labeled under law--then it past the first test. After that I buy what I like that suites me for flavor and if it is the cheapest that makes it even better. I have tried some of the new California oils, like California Olive Oil Ranch and find it tasteless. I have compared it to the cheap Walmart Extra Virgin and I liked the Walmart product better.
I buy many olive oils and I mix them as I please. I reserve some for finishing a dish and some I use for cooking. I sometimes mix extra virgin with other non olive oils--whatever works for whatever I am doing.
I have been to professional presentation of olive oil and probably have been buying extra virgin olive oil before most people have even bothered or knew about the product and it was not available in the A&P. I am a Sicilian American and over 60 and grew up in New York. We bought extra virgin from Italian Markets when I a kid. Another source was the local Italian Don (some were what you would expect and you never complained); brought it from their contacts in Sicily in large quantities for their family and friends. My father would bring home a jug--it was like prohibition but with bootlegged olive oil.
I graduated from the CIA in Hyde Park, many decades ago, and it was used in preparation but not like today. That is why I eventually ended up in food preparation and latter purchasing and procurement.
When I was a kid, I had dry dark elbows, so my mother would rub in olive oil to moisten and lemon halves on my elbows to lighten them. When I went to school, everyone smelled me coming--I smelled like a salad! Of course, it added to the odorous assault as I was carry my lunch of peppers and eggs on crusty bread with the olive oil soaking through the paper bag.
My answer is forgetaboutit because there is nothing you can really do to stop this fraud. It is especially problematic for food products because many of today's consumers who talk the talk of organic, natural and local sourcing have more money than sense and knowledge--the suppliers know it when they market the products with these fanciful claims and packaging.
Livecontent
Last edited by livecontent; 11-05-2014 at 08:33 PM..
I really do not care what it sounds like to you, nor do I care that if anyone listens to me at all, they can go do what ever they feel like, does not impact my life at all. Someone asked a question, I answered, it is as simple as that, they can take it at face value or not, I am not going to write my bio regarding my involvment with the olive oil industry, nor write a referenced dissertation over it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by livecontent
I have bought olive oil for restaurant, large hotels, foodservice organization and suppliers and I uncovered numerous incidents of fraud. Many I reported and many I stopped but they just open up shop somewhere else. Once I demanded a certificate of origin and it was fraudulent. It matters not if the olives come from one region or many--there will be fraud. I have learned that if there is money involved then any food producer, large or small, will be tempted to commit fraud. It makes no difference if its Italian, Grecian or American product. It matters not if it comes from a distance or from the local "farmer in the dell"--there will be fraud in all food products.
Actually, yea, it matters where the olives come from, because that is the source of adulteration. The more sources the olives derive from, the higher chance of adulteration. But again, I do not really care if you or anyone listens to this advice or not, do what ever you feel like doing. You also have completely the incorrect idea of what even the fraud (adulteration) is, it is not like the company itself is doing it on purpose, it does not work that way, they would easily get busted if they did it that way (as it happened before a few times).
Quote:
Originally Posted by livecontent
Olive oil has been adulterated since ancient times. Many times it was adulterated with hazelnut oil. Think about this: perhaps the concept that olive oil is healthy is not because it is the olives, it may be the adulterant because that is more efficacious to health. Today Hazelnuts are expensive because of this current fad of hazelnut butters.
No, the concept olive oil is a healthy alternative is because it is olive oil, not because of adulteration with anything. Besides, that is not even the point, the point is if the damn bottle states "100% olive oil", then I expect it to be 100% olive oil.
And stating olive oil has been adulterated since ancient times is not relevant, I do not care what the history is of adulteration in olive oil, it is not acceptable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by livecontent
That is BS to say you can taste olive oile that it is adulterated. It takes a chemical analysis or at least trained professional to make that determination. Any large producer knows exactly what to mix and add to make it appear as a better product. Color is no determination as they can crush stems. They can add other cheaper food oils.
Not BS at all, this statement alone shows me you do not have much experience, past basic purchasing, with olive oil. Olive oil that has been adulterated rather poorly can be easily noticed by taste, to those who know what olive oils taste like. This is the same as with honey and maple syrup. Just because YOU cannot taste the difference, does not mean it is BS. Just as there are many people who can taste the cheaper fish they try to pass off as the more expensive fish; I cannot taste the difference, that does not mean I call out BS on those who can.
And again, you are mistaken on how the adulteration works, it is not like some large company in Italy is just sitting there mixing in fake stuff, they would easily get busted, the adulteration does not work that way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by livecontent
So, what do you do? After years of being annoyed and bothered. I look at the label and it is clearly labeled under law--then it past the first test. After that I buy what I like that suites me for flavor and if it is the cheapest that makes it even better. I have tried some of the new California oils, like Olive Oil Ranch and find it tasteless. I have compared it to the cheap Walmart Extra Virgin and I liked the Walmart product better.
Again, you demonstrate your lack of knowledge regarding olive oils, if you want just taste, then why do you even care about the quality? It is like the person stating they like frozen food because of the taste, and do not care about the quality nor health factor of it, ok, fine, just do not debate me about those other factors in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by livecontent
I have been to professional presentation of olive oil and probably have been buying good extra olive oil before most people have even bothered or knew about the product and it was not available in the A&P. I am a Sicilian American and over 60 and grew up in New York. We bought extra virgin from Italian Markets when I a kid. Another source was the local Italian Don (some where what you would expect and you never complained) who brought it from their contacts in Sicily in large quantities for their family and friends.
Now your nonsense makes sense; you are Italian American, you took personal offense at me calling out Italy as a known source of adulterated oil...No wonder you were so damn emotional over a simple thing, then finish up with you do not even care about the quality of olive oil in the first place, just taste and price are your factors.
By the way, I have been involved with olive oil for decades, my family has been involved for much longer, and some family are very involved with it today, this is where I obtain my knowledge from.
Quote:
Originally Posted by livecontent
My answer is forgetaboutit because there is nothing you can really do to stop this fraud. It is especially problematic for food products because many of today's consumers who talk the talk of organic, natural and local sourcing have more money than sense and knowledge--the suppliers know it when they market the products with these fanciful claims and packaging.
Actually, US olive oil producers have promoted a great way to stop this fraud, as US producers are victims of it; it is difficult for US producers to compete with their pure product against cheaper adulterated products. US producers have been lobbying the US gov to enact stricter standards and punishments, but the US has refused to do so. Not only oil producers, but honey producers have hopped on board as well.
Did I get under your collar--good! You do not like to be opposed with your big ego of alleged knowledge--It shows with your angry volatile response.
Because I been around for many years buying food and you are blowing much smoke!
I am not offended by your attacking Italian Olive Oil--I know specifically how fraudulent products are produced in that country and every country including the USA.
You criticize me for being a consumer who buys a food product based on taste and price--Imagine that! That bothers you? What you want is us to buy your expensive marketed product based on a fancy label that pretends to be a superior product. Of course, it works for the consumer who buys to show off thinking we are impressed by what they can afford with their affectation of "look at me". Price does not denote always higher quality; nor does less expensive always mean less quality.
I am aware of the lobbying of domestic olive oil producers to protect their high priced products and their markets. It is a world free trade market and that is the way it works! Are domestic olive oil products better or not adulterated? I do not know but have a happy day!
Livecontent
Last edited by livecontent; 11-05-2014 at 09:19 PM..
How would the average person (meaning w/out a fine palette to taste pure olive oil ... which I don't think I have) find 100% pure olive oil or *know* that it's pure? Or do we all just accept the fact that most (or all?) olive oil is adulterated? Is the bottom line for the average consumer (yes, that would be me ;-) just buy which ever tastes the best and stop worrying about adulteration?
Sorry if this has already been addressed. If it has, please direct me to that post. Thank You.
Did I get under your collar--good! You do not like to be opposed with your big ego of alleged knowledge--It shows with your angry volatile response.
No, as I stated, i do not care what you do, it does not impact my life at all, do as you wish, I will even support you 100% in doing it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by livecontent
Because I been around for many years buying food and you are blowing much smoke!
You buy, that is it, not seeing how that creates knowledge. But I will not dispute your knowledge, it is just you are incorrect, but oh well, cannot prove either way, people who read this can believe what ever they want to believe. You state "I am blowing smoke", yet you are making claims and for some reason I should not respond back to you with the same "you are blowing smoke"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by livecontent
I am not offended by your attacking Italian Olive Oil--I know specifically how fraudulent products are produced in that country and every country including the USA.
The US, Australia, and Greece have a very much lower chance of adulteration, but you can jsut do what you want, I do not care.
Quote:
Originally Posted by livecontent
You criticize me for being a consumer who buys a food product based on taste and price--Imagine that! That bothers you? What you want is us to buy your expensive marketed product based on a fancy label that pretends to be a superior product. Of course, it works for the consumer who buys to show off thinking we are impressed by what they can afford with their affectation of "look at me". Price does not denote always higher quality; nor does less expensive always mean less quality.
Yes, I do criticize in regards to this topic, because this topic is about quality and proper labeling, something you seem to not care about by your assertion that all you acre about is "taste and price".
I have no expensive marketed product, so I have no clue what you mean by this. You seem to take issue with anything that is priced higher and has a "fancy" label, like one of those rapid anti-whole food types or something, saying anything to criticize someone who shops at anything besides Walmart or something, like yet another "rich people are evil" types.
Quote:
Originally Posted by livecontent
I am aware of the lobbying of domestic olive oil producers to protect their high priced products and their markets. It is a world free trade market and that is the way it works! Are domestic olive oil products better or not adulterated? I do not know but have a happy day!
They are protecting their industries because they are trying to compete with their pure product against fake products; please tell me, what do you think they should do? Be quiet about it? Please tell me, what steps do you think they should do? They are wanting testing, including their own products, to verify the purity, they can advocate for this because they know their products are pure.
How would the average person (meaning w/out a fine palette to taste pure olive oil ... which I don't think I have) find 100% pure olive oil or *know* that it's pure? Or do we all just accept the fact that most (or all?) olive oil is adulterated? Is the bottom line for the average consumer (yes, that would be me ;-) just buy which ever tastes the best and stop worrying about adulteration?
Sorry if this has already been addressed. If it has, please direct me to that post. Thank You.
Again, it is EXACTLY like the difference between real maple syrup and fake "table syrup." ANYONE who has tasted real maple syrup isn't going to be fooled by a counterfeit.
1) Go find some real olive oil. Small family production in California. Or go to a specialty food shop that specializes in olive oil and vinegar. Even in the food wasteland of Las Vegas, we have a store like this.
2) Try real olive oil. Notice how it actually has flavor and isn't just oily. Slightly peppery, often phenolic.
3) Don't get fooled again.
If you buy fake oil, bring it back to the store and demand a refund. The store managers KNOW how bad the situation is and they'll quietly refund your money. They don't want anyone to know how little real olive oil is actually on the shelves.
PS -- Keep in mind that olive oil is, surprise surprise, a food product -- and it doesn't age well. So in addition to outright frauds and oil blending, there is also a good chance of buying oil that is LONG past it's prime. That will also be tasteless garbage -- but it is real olive oil, just a few years past it's sell-by date.
so what specific product do you guys recommend? whats in your kitchen?
There is no specific product to recommend. There is no easy way out of this. What's real and good one month could be fake and bogus the next. The ONLY way is to develop a taste for the real deal.
Right now, I have Tuscan olive oil from a producer who I personally know and respect, and California oil from St. Helena. I am planning on buying some olive oil from a family farm in Temecula, CA.
I will not give any specific product recommendations because they could be bogus as soon as NEXT WEEK. Olive oil is the food world's version of a shell game. "Where's the real deal? Is it under this nut? Oh, so sorry. You got canola oil. Thanks for playing."
I get that you're telling me to try the real thing and get to know what it tastes like so I can tell the difference. But how the heck am I suppose to know without a doubt that it's 100% REAL? If adulteration is that common and no one knows it's being done except the manufacturer, unless you are the manufacturer or know them personally, for all you know the oil you think is pure is actually adulterated. Sure I can ask a company, "Hey, is your olive oil pure and unadulterated?". Regardless of the truth, they are going to say "Yes". You get my quandary?
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