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Old 01-25-2023, 05:48 PM
 
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Yes, this is another cast iron thread. In part, I'm starting it to put my notes in writing in a place I can find them. I have read through the multiple threads on cast iron here. One of them was 45 pages long and my eyes were crossing by the time I finished. I've also been scouring the web and the Lodge site and Youtube.

I've got cast iron skillets that get used regularly, and I made the mistake of buying an old rusted and pitted Dutch oven for $20 on a thrift store run. That led to my getting another piece, a $20 chicken fryer, supposedly made by Martin, also in rough shape. That led to my remembering I had left my griddle out on the BBQ grill from the last time I used it, and it had not been cleaned.

All of these have now been restored to working order, but it has been an education.

The one thing that cast iron requires more than anything is time. It takes time to restore, time to allow proper heating before use, and time to properly wipe and prep for storage.

I'm going to summarize what I have learned, in hopes of helping others and to help me remember the lessons learned.

Starting off: Cast iron is just that, iron ( Chemical symbol Fe ) that has been heated to the melting point and then the liquid poured into a pressed sand mold. Cast iron is not steel, in that there are no other metals or chemicals (intentionally) involved. It is by nature somewhat brittle. Coming out of the mold, the surface is rough and the imprint of the individual grains of sand in the mold give texture.

The Lodge products are not milled further, but coated with an oil that is baked on to give an initial seasoning and prevent rust. That was not common in the older cookware.

Here we come to the first contradiction between users. On one hand, some note that older cast iron was lighter and easier to handle as a positive attribute, while others find the heat holding qualities of the more massive pieces to be a positive attribute. Since it is the mass that holds the heat, you can't have it both ways - light and massive.

Pretty universally, people agree that a warped skillet or pan is a bad thing. Fortunately, warping cast iron is not easy, unlike sheet steel or aluminum. No matter where it originates, most castings are not warped.

Every once in a while I ran across a user saying that a pan had hot spots or uneven cooking. I THINK this may be due to the way the pan was cooled or annealed, and may improve with use. Other obvious causes may be uneven heating from the burner or stove, and thickness variations in the metal.

The iron itself is grey in color. However, there are various forms of rust that coat it quickly. The first is called "mill scale" and is formed at extremely high temperatures - thousands of degrees, much hotter than any normal cooking. That rust chemically is FeO - iron with a single molecule of oxygen attached. FeO2 (two oxygen molecules) appears to be unstable and never present in any meaningful amount. FeO3 is the red rust that often flakes off easily. It can vary in color from yellow, through red, to brown. FeO4 is "black rust" or magnetite. It generally forms in low oxygen areas and is highly corrosive to rebar, auto frames, and other iron and steel. When you have iron or steel that crumbles in your hand, it is almost all FeO4.

However... FeO4 only on the surface of a pan is much of what colors cast iron cookware black, and is not particularly detrimental, as it is bound into the seasoning where it cannot corrode. In point of fact, the general intent of restoring is to remove red rust that spalls and convert what remains of it into black rust, which is more stable.

Rust of any kind causes pitting. Pitting on the outside of a pan is mostly cosmetic, pitting of the cooking surface of a pan is serious damage. That gets into the debate of rough pan surface vs. smooth pan surface. There are differences, but surprisingly they are relatively minor in actual use of a pan.

I make a comparison that my funky looking rough cast iron is pretty much non-stick, but my smooth and flat stainless steel fry pan will have food stick to it at the drop of a hat unless I am careful. The difference is in the seasoning and oil and heat.

Before getting into seasoning, the ways of removing and converting rust need to be addressed. There are a number of ways. These are the major ones:

Toss a pan into a blazing fire to burn off old seasoning, gunk, and loose red rust. (To me, this is asking for hot spots from uneven heating and cooling, but some swear by it)
Put a pan into an electric oven on the cleaning cycle for over 3 hours to do the same. (This seems much more controlled)
Put the pan in a garbage bag with ammonia and sit it in the sun for a week during summer. (I've not tried this; in theory it should work)
Use a sandblaster (generally not recommended as it can add pits and blast away good metal)
Use electrolytic action to bubble off gunk and convert rust (this is what I'm about to show)

After learning that red rust is converted to black rust and not back to iron, I am less obsessive about removing every single speck of red rust. In a seasoning, it will eventually turn black on its own over time. Until then, the piece will be brownish, which is a nice color.

If you look at the four images in the photo attached, I show the progress of restoration.

The first image is of the grill that sat out in my BBQ grill for months. Using a stainless steel scrubbie and Dawn, I removed the spalling rust and heavy gunk.

In the second and third images, you see it partly immersed in a tank of water and washing soda, with bubbles coming up from it and the sacrificial anode. You can see the difference in one of the shots of before and after.

In the last image, the grill has been rinsed, scrubbed down, seasoned and is ready for use again.

The electrolytic process is fairly simple. Instructions are available on the web, using a manual battery charger, washing soda, scrap iron like tin cans, and a plastic container. I used a 2 amp power supply at 12 volts that had a fan on it to keep it from overheating.

This post is already long. I'll cover seasoning in the next post.
Attached Thumbnails
How do you clean your cast iron grill pan?-griddlefix.jpg  
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Old 01-25-2023, 07:41 PM
 
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It is too much work,wrought iron skillerts are cheap,get some new ones
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Old 01-25-2023, 08:47 PM
 
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Seasoning:

This can get into a religious war fairly easily, since a lot of people have success (or failure) with different methods. I am by no means an expert, and what I am presenting is a combination of other folks experience and some science and common sense. If you have a method that works for you - great!

The raw cast iron will rust quickly and the rust contaminate food. The seasoning layer prevents most rust and keeps the food - and especially the acids in food - away from the iron. A secondary property is that it forms a base for a low-stick surface that is non-toxic.

Seasonings start out as oil or fat. Both have resistance to water, are edible, and can prevent rust. Different oils and fats have different properties, both in their natural state and when heated above their smoke point.

I like to think of the seasoning layer as a varnish, as it has much the same purpose and characteristics.

To be sure that there is no water under the seasoning, after the raw cast iron piece is thoroughly cleaned and wiped dry, it is heated - preferably to just above the boiling point of water, so that trapped water can escape as steam or water vapor.

While it is still hot, a rag or other tool is used to wipe on a thin layer of the initial seasoning mix. This is then wiped off as much as possible, leaving only what is in the pores and crevices. The piece then goes in an oven at a higher temperature.

Here is where things can get tricky. Oil and fats go through various stages as the temperature increases, and the exact temperatures will change depending on the fat or oil, and how the coating behaves will vary depending on what is used. Skipping the mysticism of a "perfect" seasoning, go back to the basics and purpose. The seasoning is to prevent rust, minimize some of the etching of iron into food, and only then create a base for a semi non-stick surface.

Recently, pure flax oil has been touted as making a hard and impervious seasoning that can take abuse. Reference is made to the linseed oil (which is flax oil) used by the painting masters of the last centuries to preserve and protect their artwork. There is a problem with that. Almost all of those surfaces are cracked or chipped. There even is a photoshop filter to imitate old paintings. The name of the filter is crackalure.

In my way of thinking, a perfectly hard surface that will develop cracks over time is not ideal. Something softer that acts more like a very stiff rubber deflecting blows from spatulas seems more appropriate.

A suggestion of walnut oil seems a little less hard than flax oil, and then choices descend into peanut, corn, canola, soy, and olive oil. All will work, and personal preference is fine. I do have one note about the concern of olive oil and some of the other oils turning rancid. That might occur in oil added after cooking to keep the surface slick, but in the seasoning process all the oils are heated above their smoke points. That changes the unsaturated fats into a varnish or other product that cannot absorb the oxygen or moisture needed to turn rancid.

The historical standard for seasoning cast iron has always been animal fat, typically lard. There is good reason for that. It is tenacious, flexible, easily added to or "patched" and a good base for non-stick.

In experimenting, I put a heavier than normal coating of lard on my Dutch oven and baked it at 325 for an hour. After that hour, the coating was tacky in the same way that a partially dried coating of shellac is tacky to the touch. In different terms, the polymerization of it was not complete. It did very happily accept another coat of fat though, and when baked at 425 for two hours formed a solid varnish.

While this thick coating is really good for a Dutch oven that may be cooking acid foods, it is not good for a skillet or pan. Those want a flat surface unmarred by blobs or runs of the seasoning. For those, starting the seasoning baking and then coming back in at five minutes and again dry wiping excess fat before it starts to get tacky will help achieve that flat surface.

How many coatings of seasoning should there be? The more the merrier. Two or three is a minimum, six is commonly recommended, but if coatings are thin, or the piece will be exposed to strong acids, then more may be desirable.

The end result is a piece TOTALLY covered in seasoning that is hard (in that it isn't tacky). That then gets oiled in whatever oil you use for cooking.


So how does the non-stick work?

I've seen videos of eggs being cooked and not sticking on both machined shining pans and on the pebbly new Lodge pans. What makes the non-stick is pre-heating the pan until a drop of water shimmers and dances on it before any food is placed on it other than the coating of oil.

The egg has moisture. It turns to steam when it hits the pan. Oil and water don't mix and the steam slightly lifts the egg protein to keep it from binding to anything in the pan. The protein in the egg forms a solid surface quickly, and once that surface is formed, the egg will slide around on the oil.

If the pan is not hot enough, or there isn't a sheen of oil, the egg can stick, making cleanup a mess.

With cornbread, remember that the instruction is to have the skillet preheated with some oil/lard added just before the mix is dumped into the pan. The sizzling you hear is that solid layer forming from the heat of the fat and skillet. That is why it will literally fall out of the pan when done in a properly seasoned skillet.


Why does the seasoned cast iron turn black over time?

Some of the black comes from carbonization of the seasoning and left over food, but in looking at the chemistry involved, I think that what remains of any red rust gets converted to black rust, and heated iron particles from the pan that get trapped in the seasoning turn into black rust. Again, temperatures are low enough that mill scale (FeO) is unlikely to form.

Side notes:

Cooking chives or green onions until burnt in a freshly seasoned pan seems popular. There may be some chemical change, but my guess is the charcoal formed with the little bit of sulfur may add a carbon compound somehow. Sauteing greens like spinach adds oxalic acid, which may also help the coating rather than destroy it.

There is an increased uptake of iron to the body if you cook in cast iron. That can be a help to some and a concern to others.

Soap. There is a difference between soap (with lye) and dishwashing detergent (no lie!) You can use dishwashing liquid to safely help clean a pan if you rinse and dry quickly and properly. One site made the observation that if dishwashing soap was so powerful that it would destroy a layer of seasoning there would be no need for oven cleaners, as what builds up inside the oven is simply a variation of the same seasoning and the dishwashing detergent would remove it with ease.


Can there be cast iron that is "bad"?

Maybe, but it would be unusual. Much more likely is a seasoning that was improperly applied and incorrect understanding of how to use cast iron. Cold iron doesn't work well. To test for "bad" iron, I would use a bench grinder on a part of it and look at the sparks produced. Different alloys make different sparks.

Waiting for cast iron to heat, while also avoiding using a high burner heat that could cause warping or a crack is time consuming. I have found that a non-contact infrared thermometer is very helpful in the kitchen. I can check to see if a pan is up to temperature without any cold spots, keep from overheating a skillet, and double check oven temperatures in a flash. I find it more reliable than the dancing water beads.

Again, I am no expert, but I do like to learn and try to make sense of what I learn. If you cook successfully on cast iron all the time, I bow to your skill and art.
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Old 01-25-2023, 08:49 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dennisthemedic View Post
It is too much work,wrought iron skillerts are cheap,get some new ones
New ones still have to be seasoned properly. I agree with you it is a lot of work. So is gardening, so are many other things.

FWIW, wrought iron is soft iron that has been pounded and formed into ornamental work. Cast iron is cast into shape and NOT formed into shape after the casting.

Last edited by harry chickpea; 01-25-2023 at 09:11 PM..
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Old 01-25-2023, 08:56 PM
 
Location: Spain
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Interesting and informative post Harry, thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea View Post
Every once in a while I ran across a user saying that a pan had hot spots or uneven cooking.
I think it is fairly common since cast iron is notorious for uneven heating. Its strength is heat retention, not distribution. You see lots of experiments online using different ways to measure like IR or the old flour test.






Quote:
Originally Posted by dennisthemedic View Post
It is too much work,wrought iron skillerts are cheap,get some new ones
Yep.

A brand new Lodge 10" cast iron skillet is $19 on Amazon, and most thrift stores I've been in have a few piled up over in housewares. Unless I was doing it as a hobbyist/curiosity type exercise I couldn't imagine putting much effort into restoring cast iron skillet.
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Old 01-25-2023, 10:04 PM
 
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Interesting on the heat variations. Thanks.

What I was restoring were a Dutch oven, Chicken Fryer (which is a very large and deep skillet with a special lid), and the grill shown. Pricing of the first two new would be around $60 each and both are difficult to find at the prices I got. I showed the grill because it was easier to see the steps in restoration. All those items fill gaps in what I need for my cooking experiments.

Many past posters have made light of the time and effort involved in using cast iron. My intent was to give an honest report, warts and all. Once a pan or other item is restored and in good condition, the amount of time involved goes down considerably.
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Old 01-26-2023, 05:55 AM
 
Location: Eastern Tennessee
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Thanks for the post Harry.

I have 2 Lodge skillets that I use frequently and the smaller one works really well use after use but the larger one becomes difficult to clean.
I suspect they were seasoned differently (they were bought years apart) so this gives me incentive to go back and re-season the larger one.
I use Avocado oil because of the higher smoke point but I do add bacon grease to the smaller skillet when making cornbread.

I will also add that our cast iron cookware works better on our induction cooktop that it did on regular electric cooktop.
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Old 01-26-2023, 07:44 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea View Post
Use a sandblaster (generally not recommended as it can add pits and blast away good metal)
I have used a palm sander on several cast iron pans/flat tops. It works great to take them back to bare metal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea View Post
Recently, pure flax oil has been touted as making a hard and impervious seasoning that can take abuse.
When I got my Blackstone flat top, they recommended using flax oil (and may still do). It was a disaster - peeling up and generally looking horrible. I ended up sanding off everything and starting over.
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Old 01-26-2023, 08:33 AM
 
Location: Sunnybrook Farm
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Those rough Lodge pans need a going-over with the DA sander. The old ones were machined inside, but Lodge doesn't do that any more (if they ever did). Then re-season.

Last cast iron pan I re-seasoned I did on my wee charcoal grill in the driveway (it was a cold day and didn't want to smoke up the kitchen; also didn't want to open a window on the cold day). Worked well; waited till it was just embers, no flame thus minimal smoke and no black soot on the outside of the pan.
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Old 01-26-2023, 08:52 AM
 
Location: Morrisville, NC
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Nice post. I redid some lodge pans a few years ago. I sanded them a bit with like 100 grit on a random orbit to knock the bad texture down some (but stopped before they were totally smooth as I do believe some variance helps). Then used flax seed oil in the oven for 3 rounds. That did make a good start, but really, cooking bacon is the best thing I’ve found to really get the coating locked in, good and thick.
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