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Old 05-11-2013, 08:58 PM
 
Location: Middle America
37,409 posts, read 53,543,435 times
Reputation: 53068

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The other day, I got forwarded a bartender's rebuttal to an entry somebody not very knowledgeable had written about "Five Cocktails Only a D*ckhead Would Order" on a blog.

Five cocktails only a ******** would order - Denver - Restaurants and Dining - Cafe Society

In the blog post, the blogger details all kinds of things that would befall somebody who didn't have the common sense not to order things that, in her mind annoy bartenders, such as labor-intensive cocktails like the Old Fashioned, cocktails that may have (in her mind) seldom used ingredients such as vermouth, egg white, fresh cream, etc., virgin drinks, a brand of beer that would "offend" the bartender's finely honed sensibilities. She asserts all kinds of "spit-in-the-food" revenge tactics that bartenders will take, such as pouring the all runoff from the night's barmat and serving it up, etc. Kind of like the threat of getting bad meat if you have the gall to ask for your steak well-done.

An actual bartender responded to the blogger and both shot her done and called her out on her lack of knowledge about most of the drinks she was writing about.

Who's a ********? Barman Sean Kenyon's response to Jenn Wohletz's cocktail grievances - Denver - Restaurants and Dining - Cafe Society

His best point, I think, is that his job is about hospitality. He is creating things that other people want to buy, because they enjoy them. He made a point that there is no "wrong" drink to order, and no "wrong" way to order it, because first and foremost, his job is to give the customer what they want. A few quotes stood out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blog
"...Again, if a bartender is rolling their eyes at guests, they don't belong behind the bar. Our craft is based on hospitality; if you don't love serving people, find a job where you don't have to... "
Quote:
Originally Posted by blog
"... Again, it's part of the job, and the drink should be made without judgment..."
Quote:
Originally Posted by blog
"... I don't like lime beers or carry them, although I am happy to put lime in a beer if my guest desires it. This is just an example of what a judgmental, crusty barstool hack you are. How does someone ordering a beer affect your experience or the bartender's night?"
The last, in particular, is pretty applicable to this particular thread. Chefs...it is no skin off your a$$ if somebody wants their meat well-done. Much like imbibers of crappy lime beer, if someone ordering their food cooked to their particular specification and is willing to pay for it, that really shouldn't affect your night. adversely.

It is clear that there are those of you who do NOT, in fact, believe that your career is based on hospitality. Which is pretty hard to to argue when, once you really get down to it and strip away the fripperies and ego, you COOK IN A RESTAURANT.

 
Old 05-13-2013, 04:39 AM
 
Location: Oxford, England
13,026 posts, read 24,619,938 times
Reputation: 20165
Quote:
Originally Posted by aquietpath View Post
Ah, so now you understand how it feels for those of us who like our meat well done. I don't have a problem with anyone's choice, so long as that choice is just for themselves. But those folks who insist their way is the only proper way for everyone to eat it is just not right.

And for those uber-talented chefs out there, perhaps it says something about your talent that you cannot cook a steak well done without it tasting like shoe leather. You can overcook a well done steak, you know.

I have no problem with you eating your meat overcooked, and as I have stated in previous post chefs should cook meat as their customers like it. And yes I believe red meat which is overcooked is a culinary crime and a form of blasphemy against taste. But hey if it's not going into my gullet none of my business.

However it is your choice and I could not care less how you have it. People should be able to eat their meat raw or rendered into carbon if they so wish.


As for pools of "blood ( which we have established is nothing of the sort) if meat is rested properly as all meat should there should be no rendering of liquid at all. A red pool indicates poorly cooked meat.


More Steak Tartare and Carpaccio for me. All good !
 
Old 05-13-2013, 05:19 AM
 
Location: In a happy, quieter home now! :)
16,904 posts, read 16,116,328 times
Reputation: 75591
How to Cook a Blue Steak

This link shows one person's explanation and method of preparing a blue steak. Yum!

Here are the Google images that come up when I search "blue steak":

https://www.google.com/search?q=blue...ih=631#imgrc=_

Last edited by rainroosty; 05-13-2013 at 05:32 AM..
 
Old 05-13-2013, 06:59 AM
 
Location: Middle America
37,409 posts, read 53,543,435 times
Reputation: 53068
Also, we're splitting hairs with the whole "Is it blood? Is it juice? Is it myoglobin?" thing. It really doesn't matter what it is. The bottom line is that if somebody doesn't find it appetizing on their plate, and would prefer no pink to show, that's their choice if they're paying to have it cooked as they want it.
 
Old 05-13-2013, 07:02 AM
 
Location: Texas
44,254 posts, read 64,332,595 times
Reputation: 73926
Quote:
Originally Posted by aquietpath View Post
Seems like on every cooking show, the contestants are lambasted for meat that is "overcooked". Seems as though they all like their beef red and bloody, pork glistening (ugh) and chicken juicy. Personally, I can't stand any meat that has any trace of pink or is excessively moist. Why can't professional chefs agree that the doneness of meat is subject to personal taste? And please don't tell me well done meat has no taste - it does, just not the taste of blood.
It's not just the taste, but the texture is awful - chewy and dry and sometimes even hard.

But everyone should get their food the way they like it.

Overcooked is overcooked. It's not the same thing as 'well done.'
 
Old 05-13-2013, 07:03 AM
 
Location: Oxford, England
13,026 posts, read 24,619,938 times
Reputation: 20165
Quote:
Originally Posted by rainroosty View Post
How to Cook a Blue Steak

This link shows one person's explanation and method of preparing a blue steak. Yum!

Here are the Google images that come up when I search "blue steak":

https://www.google.com/search?q=blue...ih=631#imgrc=_
Stop making me drool !! One of life's great pleasure is a blue steak served with Wild Mushrooms and Béarnaise sauce. Yummmmmmm !
 
Old 05-13-2013, 09:12 AM
 
Location: North by Northwest
9,325 posts, read 12,995,234 times
Reputation: 6174
Quote:
Originally Posted by TabulaRasa View Post
Also, we're splitting hairs with the whole "Is it blood? Is it juice? Is it myoglobin?" thing. It really doesn't matter what it is. The bottom line is that if somebody doesn't find it appetizing on their plate, and would prefer no pink to show, that's their choice if they're paying to have it cooked as they want it.
I never disputed anyone's right to order well-done meat; I fully agree that the customer's always right. But people who call the red liquid "blood," regardless of whether they love it or hate it, are wrong, plain and simple. I was just spreading the joy of knowledge.
 
Old 05-13-2013, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
216 posts, read 313,763 times
Reputation: 485
I think a lot of the societal preference for rare steak is more about being 'cool', machismo, and finding ways to look down on people than it it is about actual taste. I mean jesus I love a warm red center to a steak but some red meat lovers just act like total pricks. Not only that, but this mentality that only rare beef is good is incredibly small-minded. Think of all the other beef preparations in the world which don't rely on rare-ness to be good (IE pretty much the rest of the beef-eating world outside Western Europe and North America)

The vast majority of the flavor on a steak comes from the outside crust anyway; if you have that you're like 80% of the way there.

Quote:
I've been saying that for years. If someone doesn't know how to cook a steak well done and have it be tasty and tender, that person isn't a very good cook.
Exactly. This a thousand times. Any mouth breathing cave man can buy a perfectly marbled rib eye, wave it over a candle, and produce a red steak that will satisfy rare meat lovers. It takes a much better cook to gently cook a steak through so that it retains its juices.
 
Old 05-13-2013, 09:41 AM
 
Location: North by Northwest
9,325 posts, read 12,995,234 times
Reputation: 6174
^Cooking with dry heat, well-done meat doesn't have to be "shoe leather" but it definitely can't retain as many juices as a rarer steak; it's simply impossible. Some people prefer drier meat, and that's perfectly fine, but I like something a bit juicier--usually medium, sometimes medium rare. And I completely disagree about rare meat being "easy" to make palatable.

I actually developed my preference for less cooked steaks by "working backwards." First I became a steak tartare/carpaccio afficionado. Then I experimented with rare steaks. I definitely don't do it to be "cool." I just like what I like.
 
Old 05-13-2013, 09:45 AM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
77,771 posts, read 104,672,365 times
Reputation: 49248
Quote:
Originally Posted by TabulaRasa View Post
Also, we're splitting hairs with the whole "Is it blood? Is it juice? Is it myoglobin?" thing. It really doesn't matter what it is. The bottom line is that if somebody doesn't find it appetizing on their plate, and would prefer no pink to show, that's their choice if they're paying to have it cooked as they want it.
You are completely right, but I think this all started with the OPs attitude, indicating people who choose to eat their meat even med have a screw loose. Of course he didn't say that, but between the lines most of us read it this way. Truthfully it was a post that would obviously cause some heated debate. Maybe if the OP had simply asked how most of us eat our meat and why, there debate would have gone a little differently.
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