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Well I don't pay a BIT of attention to the USDA directives LOL.
But I think there are two different conversations going on.
What's "healthy" versus "loosing weight". And calories seems to be the thing you keep focusing on.
Remember that "fat" is the major component in human mothers' milk.
Your story about the guy eating olive oil is a straw man because he was "sopping it up" with bread. A REFINED CARB LOL. There's not a single thing "wrong" with "spoonfuls of olive oil".
Eh, drink as much oil as you want....have a lard sandwich every day for lunch and pour olive oil on top like gravy for all I care!
Eh, drink as much oil as you want....have a lard sandwich every day for lunch and pour olive oil on top like gravy for all I care!
There are days I do this. Well, I can't drink "all" I want, but I have to make sure I eat enough fat. I make fat bombs. On days when I do not meet my macros of fat, I may have to eat a fat bomb to make sure I ingest enough fat for the day. What I never do, though, is eat bread on a sandwich (lettuce leaves work great, or Fathead pizza crust - OMG, so good and so much better than bread!), or gravy, because gravy generally uses wheat flour as a thickener, and I only eat almond flour, or flax flour, or coconut flour, so....
I've found a tablespoon or 2 of whole toasted flax seeds mixed into a tablespoon of Kerrygold butter makes an awesome snack too!
Sorry I didn't copy paste the articles but reading online how extra virgin etc etc olive oil is not actually healthy...its just healthier than the main alternatives.
Saying now that studies show the Italians were so healthy because of fish and fruits and veggies, not olive oil. Studies saying people who used olive oil vs people who didn't; the users still got hardened arteries and all the stuff that goes with all that saturated fat, even the good kinds.
Thoughts?
Olive oil contains Omega 6 fat, which should be kept in a ratio of 4 to 1, with Omega 3 fat, which is less abundant in our diets, but much healthier. Our ancient ancestors were thought to have eaten food that contained about a 1 to 1 ratio. Some poor diets may have a ratio that is as much as 24 to 1, with Omega 6 fats on the high side. Anyone concerned about long-term good health should search and read about these two types of fat. And corn, just like all plants that produce true grain, is a type of grass.
The Inuit have genetic variations that allow them to eat much higher levels of fat than other people groups. Only about 3% of Europeans have these variations. I see a lot of ordinary people point to the Inuit as a defense of a high-fat diet, and it concerns me that they aren't aware of this very important fact.
So what? Everyone is genetically predisposed to one thing or another. It's still an example of human beings eating a ridiculously high amount of animal fat diet while being perfectly healthy. The mother hen I was responding to said "all fats MUST be used sparingly." -- which is flat out false. I responded in kind with a fact based retort.
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I think you are presenting a false dichotomy here. Refined carbohydrates certainly do spike blood sugar levels, but that isn't to say that fat is not also a culprit in many health issues. If anything, I think a warranted conclusion from modern research is that the type of fat eaten matters greatly. Trans fats are terrible, saturated fats aren't great but may not be the devil and monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats are good. Eating a ton of bacon and sausage is certainly unhealthy, even if it is low in carbohydrates.
I think you don't understand the term false dichotomy. I think you're also trying to put words in my mouth. I am not ignoring other types of fat. I am pointing out that, based on the post I was answering, that the amount of calories fat has is pretty much irrelevant where health is concerned and that an increasing body of evidence has done more than just correlate obesity, diabetes, heart disease and certain cancers with the now egregious consumption of simple carbs -- it has been proven. Do I condone eating a ton of bacon? No. I don't condone eating or drinking a ton of anything -- especially refined carbs.
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Trans fats are absolutely unhealthy. Most real nutrition experts still believe that saturated fats aren't particularly healthy. They may not be the devil they were once believed to be, but they are not exactly healthy. I'm quite certain that fats are responsible for many health issues. There isn't "a culprit" here because we're talking about myriad health problems.
Most nutrition experts who stand by their convictions rather than the entire body of evidence, that is. And, there is a culprit -- crappy food. Most of which is based on simple, refined carbs.
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Avoiding trans fat, limiting saturated fat and picking mono- and polyunsaturated fats while limiting refined carbohydrates is the way to go. Saying "carbs are bad" is as inaccurate as saying "fats are bad." What matters is the type of each.
Well, I didn't say "carbs are bad." You did. I said -- "Study upon study has shown that the real culprit is the abundance of refined carbs that we have decided to eat 25x more of over the past 50-60 years." This is an accurate statement.
"Eat less saturated fat: that has been the take-home message from the U.S. government for the past 30 years. But while Americans have dutifully reduced the percentage of daily calories from saturated fat since 1970, the obesity rate during that time has more than doubled, diabetes has tripled, and heart disease is still the country’s biggest killer." - Scientific American
Any way you slice it, bacon grease is unhealthy. I'm not saying a little bacon grease will kill you, but compared to the vast majority of fats, it's unhealthy.
Dang. Mother, grandmother both had metal cans with used bacon grease in it right beside the stove, Lord knows how old it was as it was just poured into it every morning and used out of it on a daily basis to cook this, that, and the other thing.
Grandmother did die of a stroke in her 70's - had the stroke while she was working her acre garden, using the donkey to plow it because she was too impatient to wait for her husband and son to get back from the field with the tractor and do it. Suspect it was the impatience more than anything else.
Mama died at 80. Probably would have lived longer - she died of complications of a broken hip she got running from the shower to the phone because she thought, correctly, that it was her boyfriend calling. It was the slowing down that did her in, not the bacon grease.
My aunts, daughters of the grandmother above, lived to comparative ages. Ate what they wanted (one was an RN, a head nurse at a major hospital in California before she came back to the farm to retire), spent time outdoors every day.
Not saying bacon grease is the healthiest thing in the word, but bandwagons about what's "right" to eat either for health or psychological agendas come and go - bacon is always with us.
Dang. Mother, grandmother both had metal cans with used bacon grease in it right beside the stove, Lord knows how old it was as it was just poured into it every morning and used out of it on a daily basis to cook this, that, and the other thing.
Grandmother did die of a stroke in her 70's - had the stroke while she was working her acre garden, using the donkey to plow it because she was too impatient to wait for her husband and son to get back from the field with the tractor and do it. Suspect it was the impatience more than anything else.
Mama died at 80. Probably would have lived longer - she died of complications of a broken hip she got running from the shower to the phone because she thought, correctly, that it was her boyfriend calling. It was the slowing down that did her in, not the bacon grease.
My aunts, daughters of the grandmother above, lived to comparative ages. Ate what they wanted (one was an RN, a head nurse at a major hospital in California before she came back to the farm to retire), spent time outdoors every day.
Not saying bacon grease is the healthiest thing in the word, but bandwagons about what's "right" to eat either for health or psychological agendas come and go - bacon is always with us.
the oldest living woman at 115 yrs old eats bacon everyday
I'll give you one good reason: in many things, it tastes better! That's why McDonald fries are no longer "the best fries around." They were originally fried in shortening/lard mixture.
Also, you simply can't beat lard for making flaky pie crust.
Olive oil tastes like crap. I hate olives. Won't go anywhere near them.
Also: do not wear any clothes with polyester/cotton mix when eating something with olive oil. You'll NEVER get it out if it drips on it. Lard, Crisco, or Mazola will wash out, however.
Finally, always remember, Jesus is lard. (I was once thinking of selling that marketing idea to the Morrell people)
So what? Everyone is genetically predisposed to one thing or another. It's still an example of human beings eating a ridiculously high amount of animal fat diet while being perfectly healthy. The mother hen I was responding to said "all fats MUST be used sparingly." -- which is flat out false. I responded in kind with a fact based retort.
Pointing to the Inuit as an example of humans doing just fine on a high fat diet is irrelevant to the vast majority of humans. That would be like telling someone in America "You don't really need to ever wear sunscreen" because certain populations that live near the equator have very high levels of melanin and are thus unlikely to ever get skin cancer.
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Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector
I think you don't understand the term false dichotomy. I think you're also trying to put words in my mouth. I am not ignoring other types of fat. I am pointing out that, based on the post I was answering, that the amount of calories fat has is pretty much irrelevant where health is concerned and that an increasing body of evidence has done more than just correlate obesity, diabetes, heart disease and certain cancers with the now egregious consumption of simple carbs -- it has been proven. Do I condone eating a ton of bacon? No. I don't condone eating or drinking a ton of anything -- especially refined carbs.
I know exactly what a false dichotomy is. Saying research has shown that a diet high on refined carb is likely to contribute to obesity as a response to a post about fat implies that you are presenting those as a dichotomy. It is possible that both a high fat and a high carb diet can cause obesity.
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Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector
Most nutrition experts who stand by their convictions rather than the entire body of evidence, that is. And, there is a culprit -- crappy food. Most of which is based on simple, refined carbs.
I think you're prematurely dismissing expert opinion here. I also think you're ignoring the evidence against saturated fat. Real health experts are drawing from a larger body of knowledge that isn't swayed by one or two studies, which is a good thing when talking about nutrition. There are so many variable at play in nutrition studies that it is important to look mostly at meta studies or have a person expertise that encompasses a broad range of evidence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector
"Eat less saturated fat: that has been the take-home message from the U.S. government for the past 30 years. But while Americans have dutifully reduced the percentage of daily calories from saturated fat since 1970, the obesity rate during that time has more than doubled, diabetes has tripled, and heart disease is still the country’s biggest killer." - Scientific American
You can't possibly think that sort of simple causal reasoning holds water. The fact that Americans have loaded up on refined carbs in that time frame is itself reason to dismiss that data point when discussing the effect of saturated fat.
I obviously agree that refined carbs are bad. But nothing in that quote is evidence that saturated fat isn't bad as well.
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