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This lady has guts. Taking on the criminal banking institutions.
With 10-12 Million more foreclosures expected next yr. I think she gets it.
California Pulls Out Of 50-State Foreclosure Talks : NPR (http://www.npr.org/2011/09/30/140967438/california-pulls-out-of-50-state-foreclosure-talks - broken link)
Banks generally do not foreclose on properties where the owners are current on their mortgages.
So home owners that didn't fit into the perfect job description for this economy... ie Builders, Developers, Tradesmen, Appraisers, Realtors, factory workers, and anyone else that didn't get MASSIVE BAILOUTS by TAxpayers.
Don't deserve their homes when the overlords of finance determine their unworthiness.
Is that your position, or are you just not up to speed on the destruction of the middle class in America?
This isn't the 50's where there are morals and protections from vulture capitalists that create and pop bubbles in order to take more and more and more for their own gratification.
Choose a side... because it's going to get messy in America. The revolution is beginning.
Choose a side... because it's going to get messy in America. The revolution is beginning.
Well, your flights of fancy have certainly begun. When you were little, did you mom read you that story about Chicken Little who proclaimed that the sky was falling?
Well, your flights of fancy have certainly begun. When you were little, did you mom read you that story about Chicken Little who proclaimed that the sky was falling?
Not familiar with that story.
Maybe this will open your eyes a bit. Remember this is from the head of FICO surveys. Listen to the CEO of FICO ... you know the one that rates peoples credit worthiness.
One suggestion for you.... buy a bomb shelter and a helmet.
Of course there's plenty of blame to go around in this mess. But even if some lenders were the epitomy of evil, does that relieve borrowers of their responsibility? Personally I think not.
We all know reporters have been scouring the country looking for victims of the robo signing scandal to put a face on the misery and woe, and while I've seen some sad stories, the bottom line is every one of the "victims" stopped making payments on their loan. That's the reason they were / are being foreclosed on, and rightly so, signature irregularities notwithstanding.
From the linked article:
"No state has been harder hit than my home state of California," Harris wrote in a letter to Associate U.S. Attorney General Thomas Perrelli and Iowa Attorney General Tom Miller, who have been leading the talks. "Recently, at the same time that we have been negotiating in good faith, foreclosures in California have surged again."
Hmm, perhaps the fact that CA was ground zero for the option ARM, which was widely used to underwrite huge mortgages and put people into houses they could not afford with excessive debt they could never repay, has something to do with it?
Borrowers happily used the bank's money, now they can't pay the bank as agreed, so the bank wants to take the house back, as provided for in the contract. That's how the system works.
Here's something else to think about... many of the poor CA homeowners I'm seeing foreclosed on actually purchased long before the RE bubble even started to inflate, and their houses have often more than doubled in price since they bought, yet they're still in foreclosure. Why? Can you say HELOC? Equity stripping was rampant when houses were logging yearly appreciation rates in the double digits.
Do we really want to reward imprudent borrowers by mandating programs that keep them in houses they stripped of equity and/or could never afford in the first place, even if idot lenders did approve the loans? Keep in mind it's taxpayer money being funneled into all these programs.
Borrowers happily used the bank's money, now they can't pay the bank as agreed, so the bank wants to take the house back, as provided for in the contract. That's how the system works.
That's really not how it works. The Privately owned FED banks print money backed by taxpayers, the money is put into circulation when a lender finds a signature. The signature creates the debt. There is no real money in circulation. It is debt. Money has no debt attached to it. The last time we had money was when Lincoln was President and he issued Greenbacks, which are debt free money. The "FED" prints notes that can never be repaid. This is because the interest will never have money to cover it. WE must default as a country and go back to the Greenbacks. The FED has caused every bubble, it's how they get power over the people and the resources.
Quote:
Here's something else to think about... many of the poor CA homeowners I'm seeing foreclosed on actually purchased long before the RE bubble even started to inflate, and their houses have often more than doubled in price since they bought, yet they're still in foreclosure. Why? Can you say HELOC? Equity stripping was rampant when houses were logging yearly appreciation rates in the double digits.
Who approves those HELOCS? It's a drug dealer, user relationship. But in this case the Pushers are licensed by the Gov't to do the right thing. It doesn't take license or oversight to accept debt. It does however take a license and ethics to issue debt. When that debt is issued under the emotion of greed. Well then you get what we have. They can turn the faucet on and off at will. With that power comes responsibility.
Quote:
Do we really want to reward imprudent borrowers by mandating programs that keep them in houses they stripped of equity and/or could never afford in the first place, even if idot lenders did approve the loans? Keep in mind it's taxpayer money being funneled into all these programs.
Do we really want to reward greed, fraud, and power taking by the banking industry? Do we really want our politicians to get off without any consequences?
You are blaming the novice for the professionals deeds. You are blaming the unprofessional for the doings of the professional.
Doctors are held to a higher standard than the patient, they are licensed professionals that have the power to hurt. Not unlike the banking industry.
Of course there's plenty of blame to go around in this mess. But even if some lenders were the epitomy of evil, does that relieve borrowers of their responsibility? Personally I think not.
"responsibility" (or responsible) carries many definitions one them I quite like: ability choose between right and wrong
what is the "right" thing to do re: your financial situation varies for every person and family.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axiom
We all know reporters have been scouring the country looking for victims of the robo signing scandal to put a face on the misery and woe, and while I've seen some sad stories, the bottom line is every one of the "victims" stopped making payments on their loan. That's the reason they were / are being foreclosed on, and rightly so, signature irregularities notwithstanding.
well therin lies a big heartache i have with American's ideal of personal freedom and choice. I posted the below comment on another forum page but it holds true for pretty much everything:
and let us not forget that we are a nation that prides ourselves on "individual freedom". We hate the thought that someone would regulate our personal choices such as food consumption and deride the thought that commercials and other advertising can "influence" our decision making. we are rational, logical creatures, right?
go tell that to the nearly 100 years of work by researchers, marketers, ad companies, etc, etc that know exactly how to:
1- place products on shelves to get you to buy them
2- create brand loyalty by snagging you young
3- use colors and words to get you to buy something
4- create thoughts, feelings, etc linking you to some emotional experience...to get you to buy something
etc, etc
See, people were sold a bunch of shyte by real estate agents, lenders, etc. The old "axiom" of not purchasing more than 3 times your gross earnings went out the window. Sales tactics with funky loan pkg's became the norm. Mr Axiom...you want to take and make people responsible for their choices but then you ignore the fact that "sales", marketing, advertizing, etc is a massive influence on people.
The vast majority of homeowners purchasing in hard hit states from 2002-07 were sold a product they should never have purchased because they (1) had misplaced trust and (2) did not understand what they were purchasing.
Consumer protection laws are required (or better yet, an awesome stick approach or maybe even regulation...dare i raise that dreaded word....should go into effect on marketing, sales, advertising, etc campaigns)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axiom
Borrowers happily used the bank's money, now they can't pay the bank as agreed, so the bank wants to take the house back, as provided for in the contract. That's how the system works.
exactly. has nothing to do with morals, etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axiom
Here's something else to think about... many of the poor CA homeowners I'm seeing foreclosed on actually purchased long before the RE bubble even started to inflate, and their houses have often more than doubled in price since they bought, yet they're still in foreclosure. Why? Can you say HELOC? Equity stripping was rampant when houses were logging yearly appreciation rates in the double digits.
ditto on my comment(s) above. people were sold on the idea that prices would keep rising. or have you so conveinently forgotten the nearly daily mailings (many times multiple items a day), radio adverts, tv adverts, etc to leverage your house, refi, take some out....everything will be great! interests rates are at all time lows! take advantage now!
people can be lemmings at times...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axiom
Do we really want to reward imprudent borrowers by mandating programs that keep them in houses they stripped of equity and/or could never afford in the first place, even if idot lenders did approve the loans? Keep in mind it's taxpayer money being funneled into all these programs.
i would rather see the housing situation stabilized than money sent to secure wall street and other lenders....those millionaires are now raking in the dough at the same time that they are cutting financial service jobs and raising fees.
btw those jobs they are cuting....people who are solid middle class (i.e. salaries below $100k) so corporate profits can stay high, bonuses can stay high, etc
If you're trying to assign degree of blame, I agree that politicians and lenders bear more responsibility for the current state of the housing market than borrowers.
And if you're trying to examine the balance of power in a lender borrower relationship, I agree that there is an imbalance with the lender having more power.
But if the lender-borrower relationship became like a dealer-user relationship (yep, I see how the analogy fits in cases of HELOC abuse) or like a parent-child relationship (perhaps in cases of excessive debt I mentioned earlier) it's because borrowers allowed it to happen.
While many borrowers may have acted like addicts or children; the truth is we're not talking about physical addiction, nor are we talking about children who don't have the maturity to make well reasoned decisions. We're talking about adults who are responsible for their choices, and for the contracts they enter into. Because unless I've missed the story, I don't think anyone is claiming a politician or lender held a gun to their head and forced them to enter into a contract.
Like I said in my first post, there's plenty of blame to go around. Where we seem to disagree is on whether irresponsible behavior on the part of politicians and lenders exonerates borrowers. I just can't go there.
I could take the discussion further, but that would be going beyond the scope of this topic... kind of like your rant about money supply. That's a whole other discussion.
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