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Old 08-04-2009, 12:19 PM
 
9,727 posts, read 9,692,368 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aneftp View Post
Maybe I'm spending most of my time in the land of fraud (aka State of Florida) Fraud everything, including mortgage. Yeah, it's true. Florida does lead the nation in healthcare fraud, mortgage fraud, insurance fraud etc).

Now I pose a simple question. Everything since Congress passed the mortgage forgiveness act in Dec 2007, short sales have become quite too common. Because people know the banks won't issue them a 1099 form at the end of year for the difference forgiven in the mortgage. Everything little Government intervention seems to the housing market worse, not better. Even Obama's making home affordable program hasn't helped more than 50K homeowners when he promised to help at least a couple of million homeowners.

I've known at least 5 homeowners who sold the short sale route. All of them are not living paycheck to paycheck. One of them even went as far as pay off his 90K BMW car loan, liquidate his 50K in cash savings in the 6 months proceeding the short sale so he can "appear" to look poor to the bank.

Why don't the banks force people to sell off the majority of their hard assets furniture, extra cars, children's college savings? Yeah, I think retirement accounts should be exempted but most people have assets who own homes.

Seems to be a large minority of people (my best guess is up to 30% of short sellers) have cash assets to cover the sale of the mortgage but want to to take advantage of the temporarily law Congress made for mortgage forgiveness.

So to the realtors involved in short sales, are your clients really "broke?"
Why should I wipe out my life savings and assets if in the end the bank gets the house? I would not give the banks ALL my assets AND the keys to th house?
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Old 08-04-2009, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,505,163 times
Reputation: 20674
Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnKK View Post
I cannot believe that people in this day and age keep an agent around once the incompetence and ignorance of this very complicated business has been revealed. That is like no representation at all....
Well said.

Instead, it seems that many consumers are sometimes more inclined to take it to the extreme and believe that all/most agents, lending officers, attorneys, inspectors and appraisers are pond scum. Perhaps this is easier than firing incompetents and finding a professional who is honest and competent.
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Old 08-04-2009, 01:19 PM
 
1,340 posts, read 3,689,889 times
Reputation: 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinm View Post
Why should I wipe out my life savings and assets if in the end the bank gets the house? I would not give the banks ALL my assets AND the keys to th house?
You bought the house and borrowed money from the bank. Whatever happened to personal responsibility? The house dropped in value and you SHOULD pay the difference if you were to sell and still OWE the bank money.

Not much difference than going down the casino and taking a $10k advance on your credit card then losing that money only to turn around and say WHY SHOULD I PAY IT BACK?
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Old 08-04-2009, 07:07 PM
 
3,599 posts, read 6,765,018 times
Reputation: 1461
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinm View Post
Why should I wipe out my life savings and assets if in the end the bank gets the house? I would not give the banks ALL my assets AND the keys to th house?
Because you signed a contract for the loan.

If you have assets to bring money to the table in order to sell your house, you should be forced to do it.

The problem with the temp tax law on short sales is that it lends itself to fraud for people who do have assets but want to avoid the tax liability of a short sale.

Don't you think it is a huge deterrent to even think about a short sale if you will have a tac liability for a 100-200k short sale.

Like I said most people who do short sales truly have no money left. However there are plenty of people who hire financial planners and tax consultants to shield their money and take lower paying jobs to get out from being under water 100-300k.
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Old 08-07-2009, 10:34 AM
 
9,727 posts, read 9,692,368 times
Reputation: 6407
Quote:
Originally Posted by aneftp View Post
Because you signed a contract for the loan.

If you have assets to bring money to the table in order to sell your house, you should be forced to do it.

The problem with the temp tax law on short sales is that it lends itself to fraud for people who do have assets but want to avoid the tax liability of a short sale.

Don't you think it is a huge deterrent to even think about a short sale if you will have a tac liability for a 100-200k short sale.

Like I said most people who do short sales truly have no money left. However there are plenty of people who hire financial planners and tax consultants to shield their money and take lower paying jobs to get out from being under water 100-300k.
My point is that if you have to foreclose ANYWAY, you might as well start planning early for the "after forclosure". You will need cash and assets on hand since banks will not be extending you any credit.

I would quit paying the mortgage and use the money to pay off my cars to protect them from the bankruptcy judge and start socking away CASH.
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Old 08-07-2009, 11:50 AM
 
Location: Charlotte
29 posts, read 127,152 times
Reputation: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by NatasNJ View Post
You bought the house and borrowed money from the bank. Whatever happened to personal responsibility? The house dropped in value and you SHOULD pay the difference if you were to sell and still OWE the bank money.

Not much difference than going down the casino and taking a $10k advance on your credit card then losing that money only to turn around and say WHY SHOULD I PAY IT BACK?
The commercial business side of the world would have a different opinion on this matter;
honestly many of them get away with what homeowners in general are unable to accomplish.

I promise you that most commercial loans that are in the billions of dollars are also formulated
with a promise to pay back. Unfortunately many of them today are either being re-structured or
totally underwater "ahemmm" that will have to be written off completely of the books.

We live in a free enterprise society (capitalistic) where businesses must understand that they
will face the risk of lending and "hoping" for a profit in return; well that "hope" lies within the
future of our economy which is unpredictable and unreliable.

Bad things happens to many good people and I'm sure that they are majority in this country;
Instead of bailing out these huge corporations who are not solving the economies problems
instead are making it worse; nor they are giving the american families a fighting chance to
make a living.

I would concentrate on these families and their economical issues that are enslaving them
every day without any recourse. Once these families across America are restructured or
pardoned as most corporate business are, together these families will lift us this country and
this economy back on their feet.

p.s. GM is thinking about moving to China; but the American people will remain on this soil
unemployed and loyal to their roots, why can't the corporation do the same ?

Who should be really held accountable now ???

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Old 08-07-2009, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Mid-Atlantic
1,820 posts, read 4,480,833 times
Reputation: 1924
Quote:
Originally Posted by NatasNJ View Post
You bought the house and borrowed money from the bank. Whatever happened to personal responsibility? The house dropped in value and you SHOULD pay the difference if you were to sell and still OWE the bank money.

Not much difference than going down the casino and taking a $10k advance on your credit card then losing that money only to turn around and say WHY SHOULD I PAY IT BACK?
I agree,but not in the case of all short sales... I believe that the biggest problem lies with the foreclosures that are happening all over the place,people who HAVEN'T been paying their mortgages for whatever reasons,etc... and are just walking away.

Here is my question about short sales... what about the people who have 2 homes now because one of the houses won't sell? We have had a house on the market now for almost 9 months,we actually have renters right now (not paying us what we wanted for rent,but we are getting SOME income albeit). We are not sure how much longer we can continue paying 2 homes,,etc... and if the tenants decide not to renew their lease because they can go buy a house now for the same amount of money,we will be responsible for 2 full mortgages.
What about people like us?
We built our home that we have been forced to move from due to a relo,thinking that we would be there for a very,very long time.
I have posted about this in other threads (forclosures and irresponsibility,being one that I started personally) so I am not going to re-hash our entire situation.
BUT,I will tell you for those that haven't read it or dont' care to go back and read it, we didn't build a house out of our means,we didn't have an ARM,we are responsible people in our 40's,my husband has a good job,BUT we cannot afford to continue to pay 2 homes,we just can't do it.
We may have to look at a short sale only becuase of the number of foreclosures in our "old" neighborhood,they are forcing the home values down and we have to use those homes a comps.
We simply cannot afford or I should say,will not be able to afford (if things continue as they have) to pay for 2 homes.
We have watched and heard about so many people who are just walking away and it makes us sick,we are being responsible and paying what we owe,but at what point does a person decide it just can't be done without wiping out every single thing they have?
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Old 08-07-2009, 01:54 PM
 
1,340 posts, read 3,689,889 times
Reputation: 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYMD67 View Post
I agree,but not in the case of all short sales... I believe that the biggest problem lies with the foreclosures that are happening all over the place,people who HAVEN'T been paying their mortgages for whatever reasons,etc... and are just walking away.

Here is my question about short sales... what about the people who have 2 homes now because one of the houses won't sell? We have had a house on the market now for almost 9 months,we actually have renters right now (not paying us what we wanted for rent,but we are getting SOME income albeit). We are not sure how much longer we can continue paying 2 homes,,etc... and if the tenants decide not to renew their lease because they can go buy a house now for the same amount of money,we will be responsible for 2 full mortgages.
What about people like us?
We built our home that we have been forced to move from due to a relo,thinking that we would be there for a very,very long time.
I have posted about this in other threads (forclosures and irresponsibility,being one that I started personally) so I am not going to re-hash our entire situation.
BUT,I will tell you for those that haven't read it or dont' care to go back and read it, we didn't build a house out of our means,we didn't have an ARM,we are responsible people in our 40's,my husband has a good job,BUT we cannot afford to continue to pay 2 homes,we just can't do it.
We may have to look at a short sale only becuase of the number of foreclosures in our "old" neighborhood,they are forcing the home values down and we have to use those homes a comps.
We simply cannot afford or I should say,will not be able to afford (if things continue as they have) to pay for 2 homes.
We have watched and heard about so many people who are just walking away and it makes us sick,we are being responsible and paying what we owe,but at what point does a person decide it just can't be done without wiping out every single thing they have?
Is it responsible to buy a 2nd home without selling the first one? I think that is a RISKY move and one you put yourself into. I am sure you could find a rental (possibly VERY SMALL) for MUCH cheaper than what you spent to buy a 2nd home (after closing costs, down payment, etc...)

Why not lower your sale price and sell and PAY the difference? If you can't then how could you afford a 2nd home? I don't know your situation and you didn't post a link to your full story. But based off the LITTLE information you posted here it sounds like you gambled a bunch and are struggling because of it. Do you have cable TV? Do you have cell phones? Do you eat out ever? If yes to any of these then you are not changing your lifestyle in your dire situation yet you ask "what about us?"

I apologize if your actual story is contradicts many of my assumptions but really sounds like you made some risky moves and so far it is hurting you. Sorry to hear it but I don't see a need for a handout here.
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Old 08-07-2009, 01:56 PM
 
1,340 posts, read 3,689,889 times
Reputation: 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by loss.mitigation View Post

p.s. GM is thinking about moving to China; but the American people will remain on this soil
unemployed and loyal to their roots, why can't the corporation do the same ?

Who should be really held accountable now ???

Corporations WOULD do the same if Unions didn't tie their hands and force them to pay out unsustainable rates and pensions. Surely a simplified explanation but a major part of the problem.
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Old 08-07-2009, 01:57 PM
 
Location: Charlotte
29 posts, read 127,152 times
Reputation: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYMD67 View Post
I agree,but not in the case of all short sales... I believe that the biggest problem lies with the foreclosures that are happening all over the place,people who HAVEN'T been paying their mortgages for whatever reasons,etc... and are just walking away.

Here is my question about short sales... what about the people who have 2 homes now because one of the houses won't sell? We have had a house on the market now for almost 9 months,we actually have renters right now (not paying us what we wanted for rent,but we are getting SOME income albeit). We are not sure how much longer we can continue paying 2 homes,,etc... and if the tenants decide not to renew their lease because they can go buy a house now for the same amount of money,we will be responsible for 2 full mortgages.
What about people like us?
We built our home that we have been forced to move from due to a relo,thinking that we would be there for a very,very long time.
I have posted about this in other threads (forclosures and irresponsibility,being one that I started personally) so I am not going to re-hash our entire situation.
BUT,I will tell you for those that haven't read it or dont' care to go back and read it, we didn't build a house out of our means,we didn't have an ARM,we are responsible people in our 40's,my husband has a good job,BUT we cannot afford to continue to pay 2 homes,we just can't do it.
We may have to look at a short sale only becuase of the number of foreclosures in our "old" neighborhood,they are forcing the home values down and we have to use those homes a comps.
We simply cannot afford or I should say,will not be able to afford (if things continue as they have) to pay for 2 homes.
We have watched and heard about so many people who are just walking away and it makes us sick,we are being responsible and paying what we owe,but at what point does a person decide it just can't be done without wiping out every single thing they have?
I fully comprehend your situation because I see these cases everyday when
I process short sales. Trust me when the herds are moving swiftly ahead, the
wisest thing is to get out of the way as soon as you can or you may end up
trampled down on the ground with nothing left.

Remember Washington Mutual and take notes.........
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