What is F.Collins like - for someone from the UK to live? (Denver: best cities, low crime)

[Monkey10]

Hi everyone,

I'm new to this forum. I always got great info from this site when I did Google searches so thought id post a message myself.

I'm on the look out for a city to spend the rest of my life in and so is my partner, which is of course a big commitment. I have lived in 5 countries so I've seen a lot of cities but I'm still not decided on where to settle. My partner loves America but I'm perhaps not in the same boat always looking at Canada.

I narrowed my search down, from statistics and collated lists of the best cities in the US etc, and came up with 3;

Fort Collins
Madison
Boise

I also have 3 for Canada (irrelevant here I know);

Ottawa
Kingston
Guelph

And two for the UK (I have actually visited and lived in a lot of cities in the UK);

Edinburgh - my home town
York


Can someone give me their feedback on what Fort Collins is like?


Just to give you a heads up these are the things that concern me and my partner and what we like:

- First of we are both in our late 20s / early 30s

- Great areas to go on scenic drives; we both love going on road trips. So there has to be plenty around.

- Nice comfortable cafe's where there is a great choice.

- We are not into clubbing (those days are gone) but we do like nice comfortable laid back pubs or bars as you call them in the US - preferably trendy ones. We don't like loud boisterous ones. Edinburgh for example has a great choice of bars to suit all tastes.

- Low crime rate. Anything that has high crime rates or unsafe cities are coming straight off the list .Unlike in the UK we do not have the same gang culture as you in the US so the least amount of gang activity the better - just the bad press you get over here about your gang culture is very off putting.

- Friendly cities. We love friendly people and hate for example arrogant rude cultures. Us in Scotland are generally friendly so I'm used to that.

- Shopping. My partner loves to shop so if there is no proper downtown full of shops that will disappoint her.

- Downtown. There has to be a good downtown area. In the UK every city has a good downtown, or as we call it city centre, so that is what we are used to. We do understand it will be different somewhat.

- Good amenities

- Good health care and hospital(s), GPs etc,

- Nice architecture and pretty city. Now I know nothing will compete with Edinburgh or York in the US or come close. But there is no way I would live in an industrial city.

Well that's a lot but it is going to be the next chapter in our life's.

[Mike from back east]

Shopping, pubs, laid back, cafes, medical facilities, walking/biking trails, transit, downtown, amenities, architecture, etc, all describes the inner areas of Denver, which I think you'd love. You two could enter the Tattered Cover bookstore in the heart of Denver's lower downtown area (LoDo) and not be seen again for weeks (they have deep armchairs, coffee, tea, good eats and excellent guest speakers).

[Monkey10]

Originally Posted by Mike from back east

Shopping, pubs, laid back, cafes, medical facilities, walking/biking trails, transit, downtown, amenities, architecture, etc, all describes the inner areas of Denver, which I think you'd love. You two could enter the Tattered Cover bookstore in the heart of Denver's lower downtown area (LoDo) and not be seen again for weeks (they have deep armchairs, coffee, tea, good eats and excellent guest speakers).

Sounds promising although Denver was not originally on my list but a good sized city. Is it a safe city compared to others in similar size?

[Mike from back east]

Originally Posted by Monkey10

Sounds promising although Denver was not originally on my list but a good sized city. Is it a safe city compared to others in similar size?

IMO it is safe, though the stats are a bit higher, as they will be in a larger urban area.

[foco]

If you want a great choice of bars "like in Edinburgh"; low crime, like in the UK where "you do not have the same gang culture"; friendly people like "us in Scotland"; a "good downtown" like in the UK and like what you are "used to"; and nice architecture "though nothing will compete with Edinburgh"; why don't you just stay in Scotland?

I'm not trying to be crass, but why do you want come here if all you want it to be is just like Scotland? I know plenty of Europeans here in Fort Collins who just love it and wouldn't dream of going back. The reason they love it though is not because of all the ways it is like Germany, France or wherever the came from, but because of all the ways it is different. Why don't you tell us what exactly it is you are looking that you aren't finding in Scotland (weather, cost of living, jobs, culture, attitudes, etc...) and maybe we can help.

[Monkey10]

Originally Posted by foco

If you want a great choice of bars "like in Edinburgh"; low crime, like in the UK where "you do not have the same gang culture"; friendly people like "us in Scotland"; a "good downtown" like in the UK and like what you are "used to"; and nice architecture "though nothing will compete with Edinburgh"; why don't you just stay in Scotland?

I might do. Is there any harm in trying to find a better city to live?

Originally Posted by foco

I'm not trying to be crass, but why do you want come here if all you want it to be is just like Scotland? I know plenty of Europeans here in Fort Collins who just love it and wouldn't dream of going back. The reason they love it though is not because of all the ways it is like Germany, France or wherever the came from, but because of all the ways it is different. Why don't you tell us what exactly it is you are looking that you aren't finding in Scotland (weather, cost of living, jobs, culture, attitudes, etc...) and maybe we can help.

I've pointed out what I like and my partner also. Secondly, the weather is hideous in Scotland and north England, our government is appalling and our taxes are way too high (40% at top end), we also have a cultural work attitude of I cant be bothered and no one seems to do their job properly. Our next generation is bleak also. Where did I say I just want it to be like Scotland? I only pointed out things that we would like.

[foco]

All the places you have mentioned are vastly different. What sort of weather are you looking for? Do you want to be near a big city? Mountains? What shall it be like culturally - liberal, conservative, a balance of the two? What kind of work do you do? Any of those places may or may not be good choices. Taxes vary dramatically from place to place. Some states have taxation approaching European levels, while others have no income tax at all.

Also, I find that Europeans have a wildly irrational fear of crime in the US, no doubt whipped up by media and TV shows. The UK actually has a higher crime rate than the US as a whole and dramatically higher than the places you mention. Where the US does exceed the UK in crime is the homicide rate, but still your chances of being a victim are statistically minute unless you have an unbalanced spouse or join the drug trade. The places you mention actually have a lower homicide rate than Scotland as a whole and far less than its cities. The homicide rates per 100,000 in Fort Collins, Boise and Madison are 1.4, 1.7, and 1.2 respectively. In Scotland as a whole it is 2.1 and in Glasgow it is 5.3.

[docwatson]

I tried to give my impressions of Fort Collins, I give these with the caveat that everyone's impression is different and will be relevant to what you value and your expectations. All said, I liked FC when I lived there, as I am in CO, but given anywhere to choose from, I'd probably head to Victoria, BC. Its a nice place and if some aspect of the community really appeals it is a good place to live. I anmed a few palces you might google to get a sense.

- First of we are both in our late 20s / early 30s

Fort Collins' northern half has many professionals in their 20s and 30s, particularly if you are interested in green indsutry or local food systems or maybe high-tech. There are various gatherings downtown. I think its more about finding your niche - this isn't a big city nor a coastal city. It is however a well-educated city and a place where a fair number ofyounger people start businesses. The downtown is not just a college kid hangout.

- Great areas to go on scenic drives; we both love going on road trips. So there has to be plenty around.

I would say it all depends what you like and you have to visit Colorado in different seasons. After 10 years, I have come to find the western region of the US beautiful - the yellow gresses in winter, the river corridors with their cottonwoods. The mountains nearby. But if you favor green rolling hills (I have spent time in York) or islands and lakes (I have spent time in the Great Lakes region) then it's different. IMHO either York or Canada has nicer scenery, but Colorado has nicer weather year-round?

Cities east and south of FC have an issue with suburban sprawl (or actually, they don't have an issue with it, they rather like it).

People in CO go to the mountains but rarely to the plains. Although these is interesting scenery on the plains (Pawnee National Grassland). People tend to go on scenic bike rides whereas driving is more to get somewhere to camp, picnic, hike, etc.

[quote] - Nice comfortable cafe's where there is a great choice. /QUOTE]

We definitely have some of these downtown. Maybe a half-dozen or 8 - is that a great choice? I like the Bean Cycle or Starry Night.

- We are not into clubbing (those days are gone) but we do like nice comfortable laid back pubs or bars as you call them in the US - preferably trendy ones. We don't like loud boisterous ones. Edinburgh for example has a great choice of bars to suit all tastes.

Also some of these that are nice - Crown Pub, Avogadro's, the Vault, Elliots Martini Bar, even a baement jazz club (Ace Gillett's), etc. But this is not a big city, but sometimes FC people like to play at being in a big city.

- Low crime rate. Anything that has high crime rates or unsafe cities are coming straight off the list .Unlike in the UK we do not have the same gang culture as you in the US so the least amount of gang activity the better - just the bad press you get over here about your gang culture is very off putting.

Very safe.

- Friendly cities. We love friendly people and hate for example arrogant rude cultures. Us in Scotland are generally friendly so I'm used to that.

Definitely not arrogant, people in FC are known as down to earth. I think FC is fairly friendly, I make friends in FC at events for like minded people, but it doesn't seem the kind of place where people strike up conversations with strangers at cafes and pubs very often. (That said I'm not an extrovert so I'm sure conversation would be welcome).

- Shopping. My partner loves to shop so if there is no proper downtown full of shops that will disappoint her.

Downtown is livelier than most US cities this size and actually has some shopping options, more for women. Compared to Europe it would come up short, I'm sure. Some complain about the lack of mall-type stores, but since my wife and I are not into that, we never missed it. (Note to whomever: Jeez, you can drive to a regional mall a couple times a year, I wouldn't choose a place to live based on that!)

- Downtown. There has to be a good downtown area. In the UK every city has a good downtown, or as we call it city centre, so that is what we are used to. We do understand it will be different somewhat.

The downtown is good for a city in the US of this size, that was founded in 1880's. People in Ft. Collins tend to love the downtown and see it as a place to be, there are things going on (restraurants, bars, cafes, some shopping, events) but I'm sure this pales in comparison to UK. I've been to York and you can't compare the two. I had my favorite places to go or hang out with friends. Some decent places to see music (Avogadro's; Lincoln Center; Aggie Theater; Hodi's Half Note), salsa dancing on Tuesdays, a real creperie owned by French folks ... Good to note the city has a very conscious goal of enhancing the downtown vitality, and unusual among municipal governments, actually seem to be accomplishing this.

- Good amenities

Commitment to an ever-increasing number of bike trails, nice parks, good schools, Colorado State Univeristy, Lincoln Center (performing arts) ...

Good health care and hospital(s), GPs etc,

Definitely major hospitals, but I can't comment on quality. As an aside, anywhere in Colorado's front range probably has a good choice of acupunturists, massage therapists, etc. who are well-trained.

- Nice architecture and pretty city. Now I know nothing will compete with Edinburgh or York in the US or come close. But there is no way I would live in an industrial city.

Definitely not industrial. The downtown is pretty and developing more every year (it is a priority of the city). There is a river that flows near the downtown with trails. Nieghborhoods within about a mile of downtown are also typical historic American neighborhoods, and City Park is nice. The southern half of the city is typical America suburbia ca. 1960s - 1990s. Starting around 2000 the city made a decision that newer neighborhoods would be built in more traditional style, so you see this now. Not a tourist destination, but nice enough for a smaller city.

[Monkey10]

Originally Posted by foco

All the places you have mentioned are vastly different. What sort of weather are you looking for? Do you want to be near a big city? Mountains? What shall it be like culturally - liberal, conservative, a balance of the two? What kind of work do you do? Any of those places may or may not be good choices. Taxes vary dramatically from place to place. Some states have taxation approaching European levels, while others have no income tax at all.

Also, I find that Europeans have a wildly irrational fear of crime in the US, no doubt whipped up by media and TV shows. The UK actually has a higher crime rate than the US as a whole and dramatically higher than the places you mention. Where the US does exceed the UK in crime is the homicide rate, but still your chances of being a victim are statistically minute unless you have an unbalanced spouse or join the drug trade. The places you mention actually have a lower homicide rate than Scotland as a whole and far less than its cities. The homicide rates per 100,000 in Fort Collins, Boise and Madison are 1.4, 1.7, and 1.2 respectively. In Scotland as a whole it is 2.1 and in Glasgow it is 5.3.

Ideally id like to be near a big city and not isolated. However I do not want to live in a big city. I love going on road trips so scenery is important.

[Bradburn1]

You haven't mentioned if price of housing is a concern, but I think Boulder would better fit your criteria than Fort Collins. I love the area right around downtown Fort Collins, but it is small and the areas outside of the downtown are very much suburban sprawl with very boring, bland architecture (lots of that in the US I'm afraid--it's the cheapest, fastest way to build).

Boulder is stunning, especially for scenic drives (although to be fair there are very nice scenic areas close to Fort Collins too), but it also has a very lively walkable downtown with great bars and restaurants. Very safe--but all of Colorado is really, there's almost no place in Colorado I would feel unsafe, even right in downtown Denver. Don't worry-we're not all running around shooting at each other randomly (usually--kidding!).

What might be a bit jarring for you is the lack of humidity, is it semi-arid prairie here (35 cm of precipitation per year) but we gets lots and lots of sunshine which will be a nice change I imagine.

Fort Collins is an hour north of Denver and has somewhat limited employment opportunities (although good for a town its size I think). Boulder is 30 minutes from downtown Denver, so if need be, someone could commute to Denver for a job which vastly increases opportunities, plus you are closer to all the great cultural things Denver has to offer as well.