Occupy Fort Myers, or don't. (Madison, Webster: insurance, credit card, student loans)

[rikoshaprl]

Originally Posted by surlamonde

This isn't anything official, it's just a proposal on their forum from one rather... disconnected person. Judging by the comments it doesn't even seem to be that well received by the group.



I think you'll remember that a few years back the Tea Party wasn't quite so well organized. In fact, it wasn't extremely different from what this group is now. It's only recently that they've managed to distance themselves from fringe characters.



To be quite frank the constitution is fairly outdated. Excluding a few amendments of varying importance, it predates countless changes in the world and, in my opinion, to follow it as some sort of gospel is simply foolish.



Both of these terms have been reduced to meaningless buzzwords. Calling something socialism does not in itself constitute a valid argument, and, no offense, seems like a putrid remnant of cold war era indoctrination.

Would you decry public education, free clinics, et cetera as socialism and have them done away with? Because, you know, they technically qualify as such.



Executive pay - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Wealth Distribution
http://www.workinglife.org/wiki/Wages+and+Benefits:+Real+Wages+(1964-2004 (http://www.workinglife.org/wiki/Wages+and+Benefits:+Real+Wages+%281964-2004 - broken link))
Distribution of wealth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't know what else to say.

I couldn't disagree with you more. Words have meaning. Look up socialism and anarchy.
Wealth distribution should not be equal. Brains are not equal and drive is not equal. If one is not happy with the Wikipedia wealth bracket they are in, they can strive to work themselves into a higher one. It is not going to be given to them. Our tax system is very progressive. The top 1% pays about 40% of taxes; the top 10% pays 70% of taxes; the bottom 47% pays no federal income tax.
Income numbers are hard to calculate because there is a large underground economy of unreported income.

The next election will determine how many of us think the constitution is still relevant.

[rikoshaprl]

Originally Posted by hiknapster

Yada, yada, yada, unions, yada, tea partiers, yada, socialism.

Same old, same old.

Our problem is with politicians listening to campaign contributors and not their constituents. Period.

They will never listen to their constituents equally. Some of their constituents don't vote, or voice their opinion via phone calls, letters, e-mails or rallies. The money end should be fixed with limits on the amount that can be given. Do we really need our president to raise $1 Billion for his election? I'm just using him as an example but all elections in both parties are over funded.

[surlamonde]

Originally Posted by rikoshaprl

Words have meaning. Look up socialism and anarchy.

They have no meaning in the context which you're using them. Let's say for the sake of rhetoric that all of these things you dislike are in fact socialist. So what about it? What is your actual argument against it?

Wealth distribution should not be equal.

I don't think anyone said that it should. I surely didn't.

If one is not happy with the Wikipedia wealth bracket they are in, they can strive to work themselves into a higher one

Work harder at what? Profiteering? Fraudulent investments?

In point of fact those that make up the backbone of society, being doctors, teachers, emergency service workers, construction workers, etc make a pittance in comparison to those who create nothing of value, IE hedge fund managers, speculators, etc.

The top 1% pays about 40% of taxes; the top 10% pays 70% of taxes

That's implicit in making millions more than the average salary. It so happens those at the top pay less of a percentage of their total income than the rest.

The next election will determine how many of us think the constitution is still relevant.

I'm curious which of the two mainstream parties you think actually follows the constitution.

[hiknapster]

Originally Posted by rikoshaprl

They will never listen to their constituents equally. Some of their constituents don't vote, or voice their opinion via phone calls, letters, e-mails or rallies. The money end should be fixed with limits on the amount that can be given. Do we really need our president to raise $1 Billion for his election? I'm just using him as an example but all elections in both parties are over funded.

Bingo.

And how are we to expect this to change?

There has been talk of campaign limits for decades but, surprise, no one ever actually does anything about it. Of course not.

It's clearly been bad for quite awhile but I think it's spinning out of control. When the Supreme Court stopped the ban on corporate political contributions this system stopped even pretending to have a sense of propriety.

We the people, by the people, for the people.

[hiknapster]

Originally Posted by kroeran

These sorts of gatherings are very useful for security entities to update their databases on the local subversive populations

I wonder what the world would look like if humanity collectively hid in their caves and forward.

[ninety-nine%]

When you say a certain percent of taxpayers pay an amount of the total taxes, it means nothing unless you make it relative by including their percent of the nation's income and wealth.

Here is why: In a slave state the landed gentry pay one hundred percent of the taxes. Those sorry slaves pay none.

40% of the population have .3% of the wealth. Should they pay more so the top 20% that own 84% don't have to pay a little more. They won't even miss it but, but, be assured the bottom 40% will feel great pain with any reduction in disposable income. Land of the Free, Home of the Poor | PBS NewsHour | Aug. 16, 2011 | PBS

[changeyourthoughts]

People who still actually believe that if you just pull yourself up by your boostraps and "work harder" will resolve the rampant poverty are suckers for one of the oldest myths in the world. It is MUCH more complex than that. Who do you think all these people protesting are?? Just poor lazy losers? Look again. People are waking UP finally to the sickness that is capitalism, not because everyone should make the same amount no matter what, but because people do NOT have a fair shot in life when racism, discrimination, irrational tax brackets, and the concentration of wealth by the very VERY few exist. Look at Argentina - we all have RIGHT to life, and life is not life if one cannot feed their children, have decent healthcare, and shelter. Those are basic! You tea partier anarchists are obssessed with everyone being the same and having the same abilities - you actually think it is fair and normal that a CEO in the U.S. should make 500 TIMES what his/her employee does. Sure, sounds perfectly reasonable! Children starving in the streets, parents losing their homes and jobs, they are just LAZY right!? You are so angry and bitter, so UN CHRIST like (although most of you claim to be Christians), you have no compassion, you do not want to be confused with the facts because the facts are THREATENING to you!

[hiknapster]

It's very easy for a retiree from a union job to tsk, tsk and casually throw around the "boot straps" platitudes. Ever notice that the biggest gripers about unions and government are their own workers? How about those folks sit around fat and happy while the rest of us - I'm a small business owner - exercise their right to assemble and free speech? Okey doke?

[st468]

The unions are nothing more than organized crime groups. Band together and shake businesses down. And they wonder why so many jobs have moved over$ea$? Assembly line workers who earn 6-figures. Grocery store cashiers who earn $27/hr and complain that it is not enough.

Maybe it's just a conspiracy theory of mine, but I believe these recent "protests" are nothing more than the Obama administration's turning up the heat in its re-election bid. Rev up their far-left base and seize upon the stagnant economy and high unemployment (can't let a crisis go to waste). Ramped up class warfare seems to be the latest tactic. Something, anything to try to counter the Tea Party's momentum.

And the really sad thing is that this administration's policies, as well as the wishes of these "protestors", will only make things worse. Great idea, scare businesses even more with additional regulations, higher taxes, etc. Then go on to threaten well-off individuals with a similar fate. How's that going to help the economy in SW Florida? An economy which relies on well-off individuals retiring there and/or buying second homes. And the snowbirds and vacationers. That "just a little bit more" these morons say the "rich" should pay in taxes is money which would otherwise be spent at shops, restaurants, on second homes and construction projects, numerous services, etc.

[prairie360]

"The Constitution is outdated."
What a dangerous sentiment. Its almost like the Left's contention that it is a "living" document. No it isn't. Its a set of principles that separates our Nation from every other on the face of this earth.
The fact of the matter is that these protesters are generally children of well-to-do parents and who don't have a clue of what it's like to go to work everyday, pay your taxes and your bills and raise a family. I know all about them. They've been marching past my building in New York and if you ask them why they are there they can't give you a cohesive nor rational answer. Because this is a game for their naive minds. All they know is what their radical, over paid professor has been brain washing them for the last year, is what they're out protesting about.