Occupy Fort Myers, or don't. (real estate, loan, house)

[st468]

Originally Posted by prairie360

"The Constitution is outdated."
What a dangerous sentiment. Its almost like the Left's contention that it is a "living" document. No it isn't. Its a set of principles that separates our Nation from every other on the face of this earth.
The fact of the matter is that these protesters are generally children of well-to-do parents and who don't have a clue of what it's like to go to work everyday, pay your taxes and your bills and raise a family. I know all about them. They've been marching past my building in New York and if you ask them why they are there they can't give you a cohesive nor rational answer. Because this is a game for their naive minds. All they know is what their radical, over paid professor has been brain washing them for the last year, is what they're out protesting about.

Amen to that! I think they bussed them in from Madison, WI...

[prairie360]

Originally Posted by surlamonde

They have no meaning in the context which you're using them. Let's say for the sake of rhetoric that all of these things you dislike are in fact socialist. So what about it? What is your actual argument against it?

One word... Greece. Here's another... Italy. Another one... Spain.... Here's another Portugal. See the pattern yet?

Work harder at what? Profiteering? Fraudulent investments?

No one I know of is defending them.

In point of fact those that make up the backbone of society, being doctors, teachers, emergency service workers, construction workers, etc make a pittance in comparison to those who create nothing of value, IE hedge fund managers, speculators, etc.

Negative... As a society, we ALL contribute. Each one you cited is a special interest group. Do you really believe the the teacher's union has our kids best interests paramount or their members interests primarily?

That's implicit in making millions more than the average salary. It so happens those at the top pay less of a percentage of their total income than the rest.

No one can defend the fact that 50% of the population pays zero taxes and are therefore consumers, while the other 50% pay all the taxes and are the producers. How long can you sustain that imbalance? Ask the German people how they feel about that with regard to the rest of Europe.

I'm curious which of the two mainstream parties you think actually follows the constitution.

What difference does it make? As long as the American people are guided by its principles, we can make informed judgments of which candidate will adhere most to the Constitution.

[stahltkd]

Originally Posted by st468

The unions are nothing more than organized crime groups. Band together and shake businesses down. And they wonder why so many jobs have moved over$ea$? Assembly line workers who earn 6-figures. Grocery store cashiers who earn $27/hr and complain that it is not enough.

Originally Posted by prairie360

Negative... As a society, we ALL contribute. Each one you cited is a special interest group. Do you really believe the the teacher's union has our kids best interests paramount or their members interests primarily?

As a state employee all my information is available for all to see. I'd like to know where these so complainers are... Last I knew when I was looking for a job - Aldi's was the highest paying cashier position at 10/hr. Managers were making 14/hr. Assembly line workers have been taking pay cuts - Delphi Packard Electric in Warren, Ohio is paying their journeymen 14/hr. I haven't priced factory wages around here but guessing - its probably lower than the average.

Here's how my union / business agreement get me that wonderful "benefits" and "wages":

I'm pay grade 4 (11.02/hr) I bring home roughly 500.00 on the 15th and 30th. Luckily my wife and I both work for the school district and we both have our own healthcare policies. The district gives us a choice of coverage and they give us 265.00 every pay period towards our insurance. Sounds good right!?!?

Notice I said luckily for us. Let's look at the insurance premiums:

702Plan 117 Plan 3359 Plan HMO 105

Employee Only $346.00 $265.50 $245.00 $326.00
Employee/Spouse $858.50 $642.00 $593.00 $803.50
Employee/Child $536.50 $398.50 $368.00 $502.00
Employee/Children $748.00 $559.00 $516.00 $700.00
Employee/Family $1,079.00 $809.50 $747.50 $1,010.00

http://insurance.leeschools.net/health.htm

So let's say X works for the District. X's spouse is laid off and they have 2 children. The cheapest plan is 747.50 (2x /month). At my pay rate - I can't even afford to insure my whole family.

Let's say that X is a teacher in X's first 3 steps. (You can only get a pay raise if the district approves that everyone can go up a step) Base salary is 38k a year. So, roughly 1,300 2x/mo. Even at a teacher's salary more than half of your check is going to go to insuring your family

Sounds like our union is helping us get ahead

[Izmack]

Stahl, it doesn't matter what you say. Lemmings have bought into the right wing anti union bull$%^&. No one would choose the teaching profession to get rich. I can name 6 friends - with me in that bunch - who finally walked away due to the lack of respect and low wages even with a Master's degree. I'm STILL paying off my student loans for that degree and expect to be doing so for quite some time.

I guess it's OK for Wall Street to keep posting billions in profits. I am confident they have our best interest at heart. When we are back to kids working in sweatshops and no disability insurance after having one's leg severed on the job, maybe people will wake up....after all, it wasn't 100 years ago that that was the case in this country. But...let's blame the unions that BP will only make 5 billion last year. BP shares underperform on talk of weak quarterly profits | Reuters

Originally Posted by stahltkd

As a state employee all my information is available for all to see. I'd like to know where these so complainers are... Last I knew when I was looking for a job - Aldi's was the highest paying cashier position at 10/hr. Managers were making 14/hr. Assembly line workers have been taking pay cuts - Delphi Packard Electric in Warren, Ohio is paying their journeymen 14/hr. I haven't priced factory wages around here but guessing - its probably lower than the average.

Here's how my union / business agreement get me that wonderful "benefits" and "wages":

I'm pay grade 4 (11.02/hr) I bring home roughly 500.00 on the 15th and 30th. Luckily my wife and I both work for the school district and we both have our own healthcare policies. The district gives us a choice of coverage and they give us 265.00 every pay period towards our insurance. Sounds good right!?!?

Notice I said luckily for us. Let's look at the insurance premiums:

702Plan 117 Plan 3359 Plan HMO 105

Employee Only $346.00 $265.50 $245.00 $326.00
Employee/Spouse $858.50 $642.00 $593.00 $803.50
Employee/Child $536.50 $398.50 $368.00 $502.00
Employee/Children $748.00 $559.00 $516.00 $700.00
Employee/Family $1,079.00 $809.50 $747.50 $1,010.00

Welcome to The School District of Lee County

So let's say X works for the District. X's spouse is laid off and they have 2 children. The cheapest plan is 747.50 (2x /month). At my pay rate - I can't even afford to insure my whole family.

Let's say that X is a teacher in X's first 3 steps. (You can only get a pay raise if the district approves that everyone can go up a step) Base salary is 38k a year. So, roughly 1,300 2x/mo. Even at a teacher's salary more than half of your check is going to go to insuring your family

Sounds like our union is helping us get ahead

[Izmack]

Originally Posted by prairie360

Do you really believe the the teacher's union has our kids best interests paramount or their members interests primarily?

If you really believe that statement, that's one of the most ignorant things I've read in quite some time....sad, really.

[Izmack]

Originally Posted by rikoshaprl

The next election will determine how many of us think the constitution is still relevant.

Perhaps we can elect Dick Cheney and his record on Constitutional adherence?

[Izmack]

Interesting - and one might say career blowing - statement from Peter King, congressman from Long Island. Yes, congress clearly has its constituents' best interests at heart.

[prairie360]

Originally Posted by Izmack

If you really believe that statement, that's one of the most ignorant things I've read in quite some time....sad, really.

I do believe that statement and I'll give you two examples:

Average teacher salary in Long Island NY is $100,000+ per year.
About the same in New Jersey.

U.S student tests versus 22 other industrialized nations, the U.S students score 19th, even though we spend, per student, twice of that of the second highest spending nation, in this case, the U.K.
And remember, teachers in NY, do not work an entire year although they are paid for a full year but work 163 days.
Now I don't know where you work and I'm certain that there are vast descrepencies in teacher pay throught the nation, but here in the northeast when a local town wants to increase the property taxes 23% and then a local teacher, in that very district, comes on the TV to say "I'm making $98K per year teaching credit card fraud avoidance to high school students", you're not going to get a lot of sympathy from the local taxpayers.

People lie, numbers don't. You were saying about ignorance? The last time I checked, in our nation, disagreement is no where in the Websters description of the word ignorance. You're side would be much more credible if you stopped the name calling and get back to a rational discussion of the issues.

And by the way, I'm not defending the Wall Street fat cats. I was just as angry as I suspect you were when this Administration bailed out the big U.S. banks and investment firms. But there's plenty of blame to go around, both in management and organized labor and... All of us for ignoring the problem.

[Izmack]

First, that 100K figure is designed to inflame in its extreme versus give a broader overall picture of an average teacher salary, which is 43K nationwide.

Second - and I take this right from the article you did - "The {100K} salaries, among the highest in the country, are paid only to the most experienced teachers, with the most education, in an area where the cost of living is notoriously high."

Third, teachers can only teach to students who have a priority to learn. Over and over, teachers are singlehandedly blamed for the lack of success in a system in which the odds are stacked far against them from the moment of a child's birth. I recommend you speak to a taecher in Philadelphia or Baltimore or Detriot or any number of the big cities to see how that deck is stacked.

People love to spout on topics they know nothing of....15% of families in this country fall below the "poverty" line of 24K for a family of four. When is the last time you tried to raise 2 kids on 24K? Why don't you try teaching those kids for just a week? We can then see how good you do and debate the merits of your salary.

Originally Posted by prairie360

I do believe that statement an d I give you two examples:

Average teacher salary in Long Island NY is $100,000+ per year.
About the same in New Jersey.

U.S student tests versus 22 other industrialized nations, the U.S students score 19th, even though we spend, per student, twice of the second highest spending nation, in this case, the U.K.
And remember, teachers in NY, do not work an entire year although they are paid for a full year but work 163 days.

People lie, numbers don't.

[prairie360]

Originally Posted by Izmack

If you really believe that statement, that's one of the most ignorant things I've read in quite some time....sad, really.

If it's such an ignorant statement, then perhaps you could enlighten me as why it's virtually impossible to fire a teacher in NYC, even those teachers with a child abuse criminal record?