Fort Myers Beach: Grand Resorts proposal really that bad?? (Panama City: fit in, real estate)

[FloridAussie]

I saw the stuff in all the papers about angry locals, the election and change of leadership in FMB, all due to the proposed Grand Resorts development.

Then I went to their web site and took a look at all the plans and... I don't get it??!? What is the fuss about?

Aren't more visitors staying right in downtown a good thing? If the local businesses want to grow, they need more customers. More customers driving to and around the island doesn't seem like an option, since traffic is already bad. So doesn't it make sense to put the visitors right next to the local businesses, so they can walk from their hotel to everything else? (Or use the trolley, cycle, etc.)

Shouldn't a new hotel create more jobs in the area, both directly, and by bringing in more customers for other local businesses who will then also need more staff? Won't that be a good thing, if it's done right?

Am I missing something about why people are so mad about it?

(I didn't miss that the 'Voice of Fort Myers Beach' stuff looks like AstroTurf, being paid for by the owners of five hotels in the area who don't want any competition...)

I do see what people mean about the original architecture being not "Old Florida" enough, and the newer drawings look better. It will look quite different when you first come over the bridge, but the buildings there atm aren't really wowing anyone, IMHO...

[NoSnow4me]

You'll find that no matter what someone proposes in the entire SWFL area, legions of NIMBYs will turn out to scream bloody murder. That development could be made of sparkles and unicorns and lay golden eggs for everyone that walks by, and the curmudgeons will still act as if it's Satan's work. You just have to expect that here, haha.

With that said, despite all the negative things that are said, this is a great place to be. I really hope your endeavor to live here works out.

[FloridAussie]

Originally Posted by NoSnow4me

You'll find that no matter what someone proposes in the entire SWFL area, legions of NIMBYs will turn out to scream bloody murder. That development could be made of sparkles and unicorns and lay golden eggs for everyone that walks by, and the curmudgeons will still act as if it's Satan's work. You just have to expect that here, haha.

It did seem a little that way, TBH, but I didn't want to be judgmental since I'm foreign so I'm usually missing something about the local culture when I just can't work out why they're doing what they're doing!

I'm a designer by trade, and used to seeing the outrageous development proposals that get served up in Sydney, and often built with few alterations -- even though they ask for something terrible at first so what they actually wanted all along looks like a reasonable compromise later in negotiations! Honestly, my professional opinion of the proposal is that it's well thought out and is the right solution given the challenges of the site and surrounding commercial neighbourhood. I think it'll still take some more massaging aesthetically for it to fit in with the 'Florida beach shack village' character of the place... but FMB basically chose not to be a 'Florida beach shack village' any more when all those huge condo developments went up. They can't readily go back to that past, short of demolishing thousands of people's private property, so they're at least a medium-density settlement now, and need the services and job market to support that.

Places are always going to change. If nothing is being fixed up, places decay pretty quickly. Agreeing to reasonable changes to your town is the main way you can make sure positive change happens, instead of decay setting in. I don't get why every reasonable change gets shouted down so much?

Originally Posted by NoSnow4me

With that said, despite all the negative things that are said, this is a great place to be. I really hope your endeavor to live here works out.

Thanks, I really appreciate it.

I don't feel like I've gotten as much of a chance to see the good side of Florida yet as I'd like; it's all work, in-laws and medical stuff for us here atm. But I did do my research before we moved, and I think if we can get a toehold in downtown FM we'll both flourish professionally here. It's the right kind of environment for us, in many ways.

Pity the real estate / development culture here is shutting out the kind of development that would house young professionals and the businesses that could employ us. NIMBYism has put so many barriers to development here that it seems like even homeowners are very limited in what they can do to their own place, to house more people on their own property! I know people love the casual beach shack vibe, and there is actually plenty of coastline and canals to go around, for the people who just want their own quiet spot on the water. Cities and metro centres are a different thing, and seriously, if you want to keep lots of quiet coastline and canals with minimal density housing, letting the commercial centres increase in density to accomodate more people is the best thing you can do.

[rikoshaprl]

I think the concept of a downtown is great for a community. Look at the Fort Myers downtown. It has art and music festivals, great restaurants, bars, some shopping and a new hotel soon to come.

[Made it]

I agree! Those folks would be insane to stop this project. Traffic in that area has always been bad, so that should not be the issue. I'm almost certain property values would go up, rentals will benefit greatly, and they will have more amenities on the island as well. I hope they are just posturing for the best deal...

[LifeIsGood01]

If it takes beach space away from the public it's bad, if it adds affordable public parking it's good, also if it makes Fort Myers more of a vacation destination place it's good. Hotel taxes are high in Florida so it should help the local economy plus add jobs and more business for the locals. You have to weigh out the good and bad. If they want it make them add an extra lane of road in each direction to help with traffic congestion.

[Restrain]

If you want FMB to look like Panama City then you will love the project. If you prefer low-rise development and more laid back atmosphere, you hate it.

One main complaint is the seawall vs the open beaches along the Gulf side.

[FloridAussie]

Originally Posted by LifeIsGood01

If it takes beach space away from the public it's bad, if it adds affordable public parking it's good, also if it makes Fort Myers more of a vacation destination place it's good. Hotel taxes are high in Florida so it should help the local economy plus add jobs and more business for the locals. You have to weigh out the good and bad. If they want it make them add an extra lane of road in each direction to help with traffic congestion.

I 100% agree with 99% of what you said there, but I'm gonna argue with you about the traffic part.

Personally, I don't think more/bigger roads are the answer here, because in a relatively small space like FMB / Estero Island, slapping a big highway down the middle has a huge aesthetic impact, and most people don't find it to be a positive one.

Also: when you go on vacation, do you really want to spend that time sitting in traffic?

Instead, I think a 'walkable resort' / olde towne centre concept for the whole of downtown is the way to go. Keep people local, capture all their holiday spending money locally, and keep the visitors off our roads. The key is having everything they could possibly need available within an easy stroll of their hotel. From souvenirs and ice cream to beach clothing to a medical clinic. The existing businesses plus the proposed resort would have most of the ingredients to make that happen; it's just a matter of having a cohesive plan and making it seamless for the visitors. Kind of like downtown St Augustine, in terms of everything being set up for strolling from place to place.

I don't think that whole downtown plan should be the job of one developer, or the other hotel owners in the area and their pressure group. I think the FMB Chamber of Commerce needs to get involved, to work out what they'd need to concentrate most of the economic and jobs growth in the area downtown and along the trolley route, and anywhere else tourists can readily get to without a car.

Like you said, we "have to weigh out the good and bad." More jobs, more prosperous local businesses, and cleaning up downtown all would be good; if we can figure out how to do that while keeping the natural beauty and beach shack vibe, and not covering Estero Island with highways and parking garages, I think we'd be golden.

[FloridAussie]

Originally Posted by Restrain

If you want FMB to look like Panama City then you will love the project. If you prefer low-rise development and more laid back atmosphere, you hate it.

One main complaint is the seawall vs the open beaches along the Gulf side.

Yes, you're right that low rise is definitely better, and their initial drawings looked way too sterile and corporate to sit on a beach. They are still listening to community feedback and revising their concepts, and the design has been getting better. It still has a little way to go to soften it into the landscape of the beach, but it is normal for three or four sets of plans and renderings to be done before they're right, on a project like this. (Maybe I'm just more tolerant of the process it takes to get developments right, due to work.)

I'm still not sure what to think about the sea wall. What sort of problems is it likely to cause? Or is it mostly a problem because it reduces access to the beach? It seemed like other businesses were complaining mostly because they want it to extend further, so they get lower flood insurance premiums, too?

[CindyRoos]

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