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As a little kid my Grandma used to bless herself when she saw one of them and say, "There but for the grace of God, go I." You DON'T look down on these people. You have no idea what happened in their lives to make them be this way.
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Originally Posted by justNancy
Amen.
I don't agree with a lot of what either of you post. However in this instance I do 100% and I am not a religous man.
Amen.
I know a person who fit this mold. A very succesful person who then had a divorce and hit the skids and became homeless.
So I do agree with the sentiment.
I don't agree with a lot of what either of you post. However in this instance I do 100% and I am not a religous man.
Amen.
I know a person who fit this mold. A very succesful person who then had a divorce and hit the skids and became homeless.
So I do agree with the sentiment.
And I'll add a "Hallelujah."
Of course they are just like you and I. They are you and I. They all had a mother and once had hopes and dreams. They didn't aspire to be, what many like to call, "a bum." They usually have children. Many, many are educated or very intelligent.
Talk to them. I have.
So, indeed, there but for the grace of god, or bad luck, go I, and I have.
The only homeless people I've come across in my little city and in NYC are either drug addicts or have been alcoholics or addicts and have brains that are pretty much fried. There's so much public assistance here that noone has to be homeless. Meaning noone has to live in the street.
I volunteered at a soup kitchen and the people that weren't brain damaged in some way looked like they could work. The issue where I live is if you can't afford transportation you are in a catch 22. No wheels, no job. No job you cant afford a car.
I don't want to sound unsympathetic, because I'm not. I do believe everyone has a story and it could have been mine. Addiction is a powerful thing and some can't overcome it or afford good rehab.
I just personally have never come across a person living on the street that was just "down on his luck."
Even when I was a kid and we drove through the Bowery they all looked drunk and had brown paper bags.
I just finished reading Glass Castle, which is a memoir. It's was an interesting life story. The parents, though educated, ended up homeless. The father was an alcoholic and the mom was just a crazy free spirit. They CHOSE to be homeless. The mother even said that if the city didn't make it so easy to be homeless, they would find a way to get themselves out of it.
The only homeless people I've come across in my little city and in NYC are either drug addicts or have been alcoholics or addicts and have brains that are pretty much fried. There's so much public assistance here that noone has to be homeless. Meaning noone has to live in the street.
I volunteered at a soup kitchen and the people that weren't brain damaged in some way looked like they could work. The issue where I live is if you can't afford transportation you are in a catch 22. No wheels, no job. No job you cant afford a car.
I don't want to sound unsympathetic, because I'm not. I do believe everyone has a story and it could have been mine. Addiction is a powerful thing and some can't overcome it or afford good rehab.
I just personally have never come across a person living on the street that was just "down on his luck."
Even when I was a kid and we drove through the Bowery they all looked drunk and had brown paper bags.
I'll start off by saying that I had an Aunt Ruby that lived in New York City her entire life. That has nothing to do with anything, but everytime I see your name, I think of her.
Now, your perception of the homeless is an assumption.
I have, right now, in my hot little hands, a 2008 study of the homeless. There is a large number of people that are addicts of alcohol or whatever. It's 52 percent.
Not as much as you thought, is it?
Here's the thing, Ruby. That woman that just walked by you could be homeless. And that woman and the two children? Homeless, too.
There are families in shelters because they lost their jobs, their homes, their apartments. There are women that are on the run from men that beat them until they are almost dead. There are mentally ill folks that wander the streets because we have stopped giving them services. There are so many people that sleep on a couch here or there or live in their cars. Sometimes, if they have the money, they can even camp.
Not every homeless person is down in the Bowery with a paper bag. (Although, I hear the Bowery is now up and coming! Seriously.)
There are shadow homeless people everywhere, and it is a horrible way to live. No, you may not always sleep in the woods, but you have no PLACE, no anchor. You are adrift.
So why would I have a homeless study in my hands? Because, when I finally get rolling, it will be my mission to help. You see, I am not just a whiner. I am a doer.
But here's the thing. It is so much easier to comfort oneself by saying look at those people leaning up against the building. They are not like me. They could help themselves but they are addicts.
It would take too long to tell you why suggesting someone buy some farm animals struck a nerve. I don't know if you get Animal Planet where you live, but watch Animal Cops Houston sometimes. While the poor goats, horses or chickens are suffering from malnutrition, disease and painful injuries, the owners claim they can't afford a vet. If you get an animal, no matter what it is, it needs shelter, food and medical attention. I think they also need love, but that's a whole other topic. If they aren't vaccinated annually, they can carry anthrax and other diseases that are harmful to humans. The way I read your post, I pictured an exodus of people from the north coming to Florida and setting up Hootervilles with goats & chickens tied up in their backyards. Here's an article that expresses what I'm trying to say.
Farm animals become another casualty in poor economy | Inland News | PE.com | Southern California News | News for Inland Southern California (http://www.pe.com/localnews/inland/stories/PE_News_Local_S_farm10.236baa2.html - broken link)PE.com | Southern California News | News for Inland Southern California (http://www.pe.com/localnews/inland/stories/PE_News_Local_S_farm10.236baa2.html - broken link)
sure, I fully understand where you are coming from. Also, I am taking the point of view of those on the edge, possibly those already in SWF, and am not very much concerned about the still-middle-class and higher being inconvenienced by neaveau-"okies".
Is this forum about truth, or spreading misinformation to discourage the riff raff from coming? And by truth, I mean not sugar coating the reality of what we are talking about in any way.
One truth is clear, if you don't have a financial cushion of some kind and an escape plan, work may be impossible to find and the social system is particularly unforgiving, from what people say.
And this seems to translate into, for someone with maybe 50k to their name and tough as nails, you could make a go of it on some remote land, and an even better go of it in Texas where there is a better chance of finding work and rebuilding in a non-seasonal economy.
As far as animals, we could have a discussion about where your supermarket beef and chicken comes from and the animal welfare issues...this is actually very near to the work I do.
A resourceful person with some hobby farm land has no need or self interest to abuse productive animals, and if the goats are for milk and the chickens for eggs, they can be as loved as family pets.
Actually, there is a goat herd just beside my gated community on municipal ag land...I am told for tax purposes...they seem very well cared for. Had a chance to get to know them (the goats) a few months back when they found a hole in the fence and scattered along the ditch, and I stood guard until the police showed up.
A friend of mine bought a trailer in Englewood. He loves it. Pays $65 a month lot fees. He lives way below his means, he has plenty of money, but loves this lifestyle. He is 5 min from the beach. Doesn't need nor want tv. He does have a cell phone, but only for family to reach him if need be. He is not homeless, nor destitute. He loves Florida and all it has to offer. He bought the trailer for $2,000.
I have often said if I couldn't afford a house, a trailer on a piece of land would do me just fine. (not with kids, unless I was homeless). I guess it is to each his own again. A large garden, some fruit trees, chickens, well water...what else could a girl want? Oh yeah, close enough that I could enjoy going to the beach a few times a week.
Not too far from where I am living now, there is a large lot with 2 trailers on it. The people have a garden, cows, chickens and goats.
If the trailer is not a permanent structure, do you only pay taxes on the land? In Pa, that is how it works and there are many people that live that way up there...and the trailers are not well insulated for winter temps. I don't see why Florida, would be harder to do this. If a hurricane comes, just hook it up and drive a way... come back when the storm passes. That person might be the only one with a home still standing...
The only thing I see that would be an issue, is the neighbors complaining...You know in Florida, everyone wants to control what others do on their own property.
Homeless people on the streets is nothing new. Actually, they used to sleep in the subway tunnels, Port Authority, in cardboard boxes in parks, etc. As a little kid my Grandma used to bless herself when she saw one of them and say, "There but for the grace of God, go I." You DON'T look down on these people. You have no idea what happened in their lives to make them be this way. .
very true...and a point I made earlier. In an earlier life I worked with the homeless and pretty much all of them were mentally ill or addicts or both, and I was SURPRISED at how many were from upper class families...I mean famous rich for our area.
the ones that were not knew how to work the welfare and spent their days in an apartment watching tele and drinking beer. - I can see how this may be different now however
one astute rough around the edges collegue back then (who drive into town from a rural area) observed to me... welfare families do not have gardens
My original intent was not so much with the homeless in mind, but more regular RESOURCEFUL folks with minds intact, no addictions, who could maybe stop the financial bleeding by moving to the distant burbs whereever they are, and find stability with a more sustainable livestyle.
If you pull the plug while you still have 50K in equity to work with, there are options, as discussed. With Florida, you better be able to finance 5 years of expenses, however low these expenses may be.
The problem is that very few people live in actual reality...the reality of being able to enjoy gardening, animals, the sunshine and the beach and everything that is free.
Most operate under the delusion and tyranny of what their sister-in-law that they dont actually like will think of them if they give up the three car garage and granite counters..which is the root source of the problem of living off credit as a culture
My original intent was not so much with the homeless in mind, but more regular RESOURCEFUL folks with minds intact, no addictions, who could maybe stop the financial bleeding by moving to the distant burbs whereever they are, and find stability with a more sustainable livestyle.
If you pull the plug while you still have 50K in equity to work with, there are options, as discussed. With Florida, you better be able to finance 5 years of expenses, however low these expenses may be.
The problem is that very few people live in actual reality...the reality of being able to enjoy gardening, animals, the sunshine and the beach and everything that is free.
Most operate under the delusion and tyranny of what their sister-in-law that they dont actually like will think of them if they give up the three car garage and granite counters..which is the root source of the problem of living off credit as a culture
Here's the thing about that. If you lose your house because, let's say, you can't find a job, well, you make do. At that point, you don't give a crap about your sister-in-law, and even if you do, there is nothing that you can do about it. The last thing you are thinking about is granite countertops. You are hoping that you can have any countertop.
So you move to a falling apart trailer. And, yes, you can live off the land, to a certain extent. That's if you have any money to buy land. So you pay a rental fee. Back during the boom, the rental fee was very, very high. I hope that's come down.
So maybe you can grown some things in the trailer park, if they allow it. But even then, you needs to get started and then you have to wait. Until then, you go to food pantry and hope that they don't give you the boxed macaroni and cheese that needs milk and butter, because you don't have the money to buy it.
This is not rocket science. People do it all the time. Go over the bridge to North Fort Myers. There's tons of people that live like that. Go over to Bonita and there is some left. The ones that the town didn't eradicate. Does anyone remember that? They had a motel and trailer park right by the river in Bonita. Beauiful spot. So the town did some arm twisting an uprooted everyone. I bet Nancy remembers that.
Heck, they have people that live like that in Naples, especially East Naples. And heck, go check out Immokalee while you're on your field trip. They can really show you how it's done. And plenty of gardens, too. Those people pick veggies all day. And wow, can they cook.
Oh, I forgot, Go way out in East Bonita and see the migrant camps. Anyone been there? They have gardens.
If you live in a housing project, then it is difficult to grow a garden. They knocked down Michigan Avenue, you know. So they all moved out of Lehigh. Now they can grown some things.
It's one thing to be an intake worker, it's another thing to know the people. The majority of people are not happy about where they are and want to get out. Some know only that way of life.
But here's my point. What, exactly, is this thread for?
If you become homeless you survive, unless you are a complete dolt, then you drop deal in the Lee County Hospital emergency room waiting room. People that are suddenly homeless don't need a primer from us. They will figure it out and quick. Hunger and the need for shelter is a powerful motivator.
So once again, is this a showcase for how smart some of folks that own homes are? That we know how to save a buck when we buy tires, and gosh, I bet those homeless people aren't as smart as me? Is that what this really is?
If that's the case, then I think there is a better forum for it than this. Because there are real people out there facing 14 percent unemployment and they don't care about low taxes on ag land. You might want to head to the survivalist forum. Citydata has one, you know. I wonder if they know about retreads?
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