Southlake vs. Keller (Dallas, Arlington, Plano: middle-class, apartments, renters)

[ChristieP]

Originally Posted by BCB

This is grossly inaccurate.

Look at the low income percentage of Carroll ISD. It's less than 5%.

[synchronicity]

Originally Posted by ChristieP

Look at the low income percentage of Carroll ISD. It's less than 5%.

I think BCB is saying that "lack of low incomes" is far from the only difference between Southlake and Keller.

[loves2read]

Originally Posted by RayStokes

Keller has a middle and lower class mixed in with its wealth. Southlake does not. That's about the extent of their differences.

It is pretty obvious that the poster DOES consider income levels as the predominant difference between the two towns--

whether that is in fact the significant difference depends on whether or not you believe that income levels determine individual characteristics like a Stepford effect...

The fact that Southlake has differentiated itself based on being able to offer a higher-income suburban haven for people who want to be with others of similar characteristices--higher income, higher education, professional employment, similar ethnicity--can't be refuted because statistics support that conclusion.
You just don't have to believe that majority of the residents think/act alike simply because they fall into those classifications...

You can drive through the two areas and see that they are different --
they project different auras, foster different building codes which create different physical and aesthetic presentations, cater to different types of clientel on the surface...
the fact that people from 3 counties drive to Costco just means that Southlake knows how to create an attractive retail/commercial environment to support and supplement its desireable residential side...
The city council and residents were smart enough to know that having a strong tax base from retail/commercial spending from ANYONE who can drive there and yet doesn't live there was smart and long-term efficient because those people's cash support a lower tax rate for residential owners/taxpayers...

[synchronicity]

Originally Posted by loves2read

The city council and residents were smart enough to know that having a strong tax base from retail/commercial spending from ANYONE who can drive there and yet doesn't live there was smart and long-term efficient because those people's cash support a lower tax rate for residential owners/taxpayers...

Yes. As much as I like Colleyville, they have not done nearly as well in developing retail destinations as Southlake has. Granted, that's a dual-edged sword (traffic on 1709 can be awful on weekends with nice weather).

Interestingly enough, Colleyville's overall property tax rate is (last I checked) slightly lower than Southlake's (although the latter has been expanding their homeowner exemption amount over the last several years).

[loves2read]

Yes--but Colleyville has smaller scope of city services to cover--city budget is smaller--
right now it can get away with that--
in future the cost of support infrastructure might be more expensive--

but yes--the Colleyville development has not gone well on 26 at the Town Center--
too small, too botique, too limited--even some restaurants have not done well
and the city has hamstrung new development lately--don't have people to handle the new construction backlog of permitting...

have someone working with small developer trying to develop couple of buildings on Hwy 26 location--been waiting for months w/o any progress because all the people who used to work in the permitting dept retired and city hasn't hired replacements...
the one guy who is there is swamped dealing with the highway expansion.

[4Movingeast]

Originally Posted by synchronicity

Yes. As much as I like Colleyville, they have not done nearly as well in developing retail destinations as Southlake has. Granted, that's a dual-edged sword (traffic on 1709 can be awful on weekends with nice weather).

Interestingly enough, Colleyville's overall property tax rate is (last I checked) slightly lower than Southlake's (although the latter has been expanding their homeowner exemption amount over the last several years).

From the Colleyville Communicator that was sitting on my kitchen counter

"The assessed value for properties in Colleyville, as determined by the Tarrant Appraisal District (TAD), increased this year. The value of existing property increased by about 1.26%, according to TAD, resulting in an increase of $7.66 to the typical homeowner's bill, compared to this year's tax billing.
Colleyville's property tax rate will remain at $.3559 for every $100 in appraised value (emphasis theirs), essentially the same rate the city has maintained for almost two decades, with the exception of a voter-approved increase of less than a penny to build new fire stations in 2008. Voters approved that measure in a 2005 bond election."

As usual, totally agree with Synch about the retail and the downside. Luckily we can avoid it on weekends most of the time- and during the week I can be from my boys' school in Colleyville to the orthodontist in Southlake in 10-12 minutes. Not too shabby. I really don't look at living in Colleyville as limiting my retail choices- I look at it as being a hub and I can quickly access whatever I need whether it is in Grapevine, Southlake, Hurst, whatever.

There are about 7 (estimate, I should have paid closer attention when I went to the library yesterday) new homes going up in the Village. I am also not sure why it is not more successful or more of a destination. I meant to pop in to the new Apothecary when I was over there because as I drove by it looked to have a selection of gift items but I didn't. My husband and boys get their haircuts at the Lodge and we are frequent Library visitors but the clothing boutique that I liked closed and we tend to visit Menchie's by Whole Foods more than Milwaukee Joe's (although it is very good ice cream).

[synchronicity]

Originally Posted by 4Movingeast

From the Colleyville Communicator that was sitting on my kitchen counter

"The assessed value for properties in Colleyville, as determined by the Tarrant Appraisal District (TAD), increased this year. The value of existing property increased by about 1.26%, according to TAD, resulting in an increase of $7.66 to the typical homeowner's bill, compared to this year's tax billing.
Colleyville's property tax rate will remain at $.3559 for every $100 in appraised value (emphasis theirs), essentially the same rate the city has maintained for almost two decades, with the exception of a voter-approved increase of less than a penny to build new fire stations in 2008. Voters approved that measure in a 2005 bond election."

As usual, totally agree with Synch about the retail and the downside. Luckily we can avoid it on weekends most of the time- and during the week I can be from my boys' school in Colleyville to the orthodontist in Southlake in 10-12 minutes. Not too shabby. I really don't look at living in Colleyville as limiting my retail choices- I look at it as being a hub and I can quickly access whatever I need whether it is in Grapevine, Southlake, Hurst, whatever.

There are about 7 (estimate, I should have paid closer attention when I went to the library yesterday) new homes going up in the Village. I am also not sure why it is not more successful or more of a destination. I meant to pop in to the new Apothecary when I was over there because as I drove by it looked to have a selection of gift items but I didn't. My husband and boys get their haircuts at the Lodge and we are frequent Library visitors but the clothing boutique that I liked closed and we tend to visit Menchie's by Whole Foods more than Milwaukee Joe's (although it is very good ice cream).

Re: tax rates, I was looking at city, ISD and county for the total rate. Short answer is that Southlake city rate (after factoring in the impact of the exemption) is about .05% higher than Colleyville and ISD rate is about .15% higher, so total it's 0.2%. Both are in Tarrant* so that's the same.

Beyond that, it's also disappointing that Colleyville hasn't had more luck with that Main Street retail. We've spent a lot of time at the park nearby and walked over to Milwaukee Joe's.

Also an excellent point that Colleyville is not only adjacent to Southlake and Grapevine, but also closer to retail in Hurst or North Richland Hills (depending on where one is living).

*- there are parts of Southlake in Denton county and parts in Keller ISD, but I'm ignoring that for now.

[RayStokes]

Okay, obviously my post was exaggerated and I don't think incomes are the only difference, but I don't find the auras of the two towns to be too different. Keller to me just looks as if Southlake had a baby with North Richland Hills and that's where Keller came from. The two towns being right next to each other kind of blend together all around Keller Parkway/Southlake Blvd. In many places I wouldn't even know which suburb I was in if the street signs didn't change color.

[RayStokes]

Originally Posted by synchronicity

Yes. As much as I like Colleyville, they have not done nearly as well in developing retail destinations as Southlake has. Granted, that's a dual-edged sword (traffic on 1709 can be awful on weekends with nice weather).

Interestingly enough, Colleyville's overall property tax rate is (last I checked) slightly lower than Southlake's (although the latter has been expanding their homeowner exemption amount over the last several years).

You're correct that they haven't, but Colleyville still feels a lot different retail wise than it did a decade and a half ago considering the size and scope of the town. That entire shopping center with Studio Movie Grill, Market Street, Lifetime Fitness has only existed for 11 years and it's grown since it was initially constructed. The Whole Foods shopping center on Glade and 26 is massively upgraded to what was there 15 years ago. The "town center" seems to be a bit of a bust as far as attracting and retaining retail/restaurants, but everything around it is booming.

[loves2read]

I think the area was slow to take off ... there was lot of construction on Hwy 26 and crossing over was difficult for while
and it doesn't offer the number of stores like Southlake Town Center--so it doesn't seem as much of a destination location.
Parking is more difficult as well to my way of thinking...

and the stores that are there are not brand name really--well, Milwaukee Joe's is franchise but others are specialty stores if I remember--
I think it is expensive--more so on the whole than Town Center--and there is just not reason for me to go there--except when friend wants to eat at Rugierrie's

The powers that be at the time rushed into that development w/o really considering all optiond.
Just like in Hurst when the strip center across the freeway from the mall was put in...
initially it had some good stores and people would shop there but with the Mall expansion behind it that area pretty much dried up--Barnes and Nobel moved and the other stores over time pretty much dried up. I am surprised Golfsmith is still there but guess it has enough of a specialty and Dick's doesn't really cover that need that it can survive...but location is not really the best...maybe they actually bought vs leased thinking it had value into the future for resale...

Same sitaution IMO to Colleyville's---
I see the Town Center location as strangled basically by location--
Maybe now that the strip center that languished so long with Ace and the Antique Mall has gotten new juice, it will help feed into Town Center--but you have to cross traffic and it is not that easy to do...