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Old 05-13-2020, 09:26 AM
 
4,030 posts, read 2,361,136 times
Reputation: 5048

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Quote:
Originally Posted by escanlan View Post
Fraud on the part of a dealer does not prevent a rightful owner from taking their rightfully owned property.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vcvs View Post
This was my thought exactly. If I pay him cash and drive away without the title, I do NOT own the vehicle. A bill of sale would help me prove I am not a criminal, but would not prevent the title holder from prepossessing. If the dealer for whatever reason failed to get the title, then the fact is someone else, not the dealer owns my car.

This is all true, but my point was that would be intentional fraud (theft) on the part of the dealer. If a dealer is willing to do that, they're probably willing to forge a title as well. If those sorts of actions are in the realm of possibilities here, we should be skeptical of any transaction. A dealer selling you a car (and giving you a bill of sale) that he has stolen (there is another rightful owner out there) is go-to-prison type fraud. If someone is willing to do that, they're willing to steal from you in a lot of ways.
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Old 05-13-2020, 10:03 AM
 
Location: Bella Vista, AR
185 posts, read 39,054 times
Reputation: 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wittgenstein's Ghost View Post
This is all true, but my point was that would be intentional fraud (theft) on the part of the dealer. If a dealer is willing to do that, they're probably willing to forge a title as well. If those sorts of actions are in the realm of possibilities here, we should be skeptical of any transaction. A dealer selling you a car (and giving you a bill of sale) that he has stolen (there is another rightful owner out there) is go-to-prison type fraud. If someone is willing to do that, they're willing to steal from you in a lot of ways.
That's all very true, and I completely get your point, but remove any fraud from the equation. The point I'm trying to make is that the title holder of the vehicle would in-fact have a legal claim to the vehicle until said title is properly transferred to me. Example: The dealer (on good faith) takes my money, gives me a bill of sale, and then seeks said title to later transfer to me. Then for some reason whomever holds the title refuses to transfer it to the dealer (due to issues or obligations we are not privy to), I am left with a vehicle without a title. I then try and seek a refund from said dealer, but now he is not financially able to refund the money... maybe he was on his last financial leg and goes bankrupt. Now... the title holder of 'my' vehicle has a legitimate claim to it and comes after it. They are in-fact the legal owner, despite the actions of the dealer.
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Old 05-13-2020, 10:29 AM
 
4,030 posts, read 2,361,136 times
Reputation: 5048
Quote:
Originally Posted by vcvs View Post
That's all very true, and I completely get your point, but remove any fraud from the equation. The point I'm trying to make is that the title holder of the vehicle would in-fact have a legal claim to the vehicle until said title is properly transferred to me. Example: The dealer (on good faith) takes my money, gives me a bill of sale, and then seeks said title to later transfer to me. Then for some reason whomever holds the title refuses to transfer it to the dealer (due to issues or obligations we are not privy to), I am left with a vehicle without a title. I then try and seek a refund from said dealer, but now he is not financially able to refund the money... maybe he was on his last financial leg and goes bankrupt. Now... the title holder of 'my' vehicle has a legitimate claim to it and comes after it. They are in-fact the legal owner, despite the actions of the dealer.
Unless that title holder is the auction house who has sold the vehicle to the dealer and just hasn't sent the title over yet. In that case, the auction house would have to be willing to commit criminal fraud in order to come take the vehicle from you.

I did a little digging, and it seems that you were probably wise to not move forward with things. But I think the downside risk was more along the lines of a potential headache getting the title than a rightful owner reclaiming the vehicle.
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Old 05-13-2020, 07:28 PM
 
Location: Bella Vista, AR
185 posts, read 39,054 times
Reputation: 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wittgenstein's Ghost View Post
Unless that title holder is the auction house who has sold the vehicle to the dealer and just hasn't sent the title over yet. In that case, the auction house would have to be willing to commit criminal fraud in order to come take the vehicle from you.

I did a little digging, and it seems that you were probably wise to not move forward with things. But I think the downside risk was more along the lines of a potential headache getting the title than a rightful owner reclaiming the vehicle.
But if for some reason the dealer failed to pay the auction house up front and the auction house was holding the title in lieu of payment, then the auction house would be the rightful owner.
But then why would the auction house release the vehicle without payment?

You are prob right, my risk would have prob been limited to a headache getting the title, and/or stressing about it while waiting on it. But after reading the negative reviews and complaints on this dealer, I'm glad a walked away!
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Old 05-20-2020, 05:14 AM
 
Location: Huntsville Area
1,956 posts, read 604,704 times
Reputation: 2998
I understand that finance companies are tightening up credit--both wholesale and retail--on all kinds of merchants. It's part of their getting conservative because of Covid 19.

I talked to a businessman yesterday that'd had his last 5 customers turned down in the last week.
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Old 05-25-2020, 02:55 PM
 
Location: Bella Vista, AR
185 posts, read 39,054 times
Reputation: 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bamaman1 View Post
I understand that finance companies are tightening up credit--both wholesale and retail--on all kinds of merchants. It's part of their getting conservative because of Covid 19.

I talked to a businessman yesterday that'd had his last 5 customers turned down in the last week.
I was paying cash for the vehicle. And the dealer had purchased the vehicle from an auto auction (according to him). The hold up was that the auction had not yet given him the title and I was not willing to trust the fact he would deliver it by mail (at some date in the future). This situation had nothing to do with financing.
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Old 05-27-2020, 06:50 AM
 
Location: North Texas
367 posts, read 160,187 times
Reputation: 630
I would not trust this situation. My co-worker bought a car without a title present. It turned out the person did not have the right to sell the car. It also came to light the person couldn't afford to run their business. There was a huge issue with the car that wasn't disclosed at the time of sale and my co-worker ended up spending more money all because this dealership couldn't afford to fix the issue for free.

Long story short - You were smart to not buy the car.
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