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Old 04-15-2011, 07:29 AM
 
766 posts, read 1,394,520 times
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You rig the contraption so it is sucking INTERIOR air from your home. The interior home air would probably already be around 60+ degrees. Once it travels thru the Collector and exhausts back into the home, the temp will have increased to 100+ degrees (depending upon daily conditions).

If you rig it to an outbuilding, type shed. Chances are the nighttime temps will take the shed temps down to around 30F??? maybe? That 30F temp air enters the collector and exhausts back into the building at around 70F? maybe?

The warmer the air (at intake) the HOTTER the air will be exhausting back into the building/home.

Here's a prime example....


YouTube - Soda pop beer can Solar heater furnace cansolair panel The Test -- Part 2
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Old 04-15-2011, 10:23 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 86,941,000 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NaleyRocks View Post
I live in Northern NY (15-20 minutes from Canada, I can sing you their national anthem). 1200 sq ft house. Last year we paid more to heat our house than to rent it.
Move north. My friend in Quebec heats with electric, at about 6c/KwH.
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Old 04-15-2011, 08:21 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,694 posts, read 58,012,579 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NaleyRocks View Post
So when talking about frugal living I've been thinking of alternative sources for energy. ...
Our utility bills in the winter (October-April) are about $5-$6K (depending on how rough of a winter it is), then probably another $1 for the rest of the year. ...... 1200 sq ft house. Last year we paid more to heat our house than to rent it.

Fuel for heat right now, and its up to $4/gallon and we use about 200 gallons during the coldest months. Electric bills in winter shoot up to well over $200/month. This year has been brutal, its 28F right now, winter just doesn't want to let go.

But I will admit, that amount is high, utility costs really skyrocketed this winter. I heard many people talking about heating costs being more than rents/mortgages. Thats why we decided we are going to sawp out the furnace in the house we are buying for a closed loop system. We will still use fuel when its really cold (below 10F or 20F) but that should only be about a month out of the year. But I want to talk to folks who have had that type of furnace installed and see what their luck has been like. Its widely talked about up here but no one has been brave enough to take the first step.
$5-$6K to heat a HOUSE (I thought you were running a greenhouse or something commercial)

My first step would be to MOVE... only 52 days of sun is worse than me (80... PNW) And... it is currently 34F w/ 100% humidity (drizzling) Spring is 2 months late. Snow twice this week (usually ends in Feb)

I am more than a bit confused... you rent the house... you are buying a house ?? (same house, nuther house, similar house?)
closed loop system That could mean lots of things. Ground source Heat pump, baseboard hot water, looped air exchange...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Move north. My friend in Quebec heats with electric, at about 6c/KwH.
I pay 4.7 c/KwH in USA (used to pay 2.3c/KwH till the wacky PUD installed a NG turbine (we have no NG in this region, but Lots of Hydro (that we ship to CA).)


I would
#1 move
#2 consider reasonable options. (underground house), Insulation, Earth Sheltering, Canopy over heat loss.. Wood stove...
THEN
#3 Waste Grease / oil fueled boiler or using home brewed Bio diesel instead of furnace oil The Appleseed Biodiesel Processor
#4 Annualized Solar (I would definately do this is I was considering adding a Ground Source Heat pump) Annualized geo solar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://greenershelter.org/TokyoPaper.pdf
#5 Passive Solar
#6 Active Solar
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Old 04-16-2011, 06:15 AM
 
1,216 posts, read 1,463,353 times
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Last year we were renting a house and paid $4800 over the course of the winter for fuel and wood to heat the house. Plus we had electric bills over $300/mo during the winter months. We weren't saving up enough to buy our own place so we moved into my parents with the plan to save money for a year and get ahead. Then we moved into my granparents house when they left for the winter and we agreed to pay the heat and electric. We've been here for three months and paid an average of $1000/month. The house we are buying is similar in size and this seems to be a consistant amount across the area so I am estimating the costs to be about the same. $5-$6K is a reasonable estimate in this area, I wouldn't dare estimate less when figuring a budget then be unable to pay the bills.

Moving I wish but this is home. We don't really move, I have 100s of relatives in the area if we get into the second cousings twice removed business.

The folks have an outdoor wood burning furnace. It works well but has to be filled everymorning and night. Also, it uses a lot of wood, which would be another expense as we don't want to scalp their forest. However, if nothing else seems appealing this is what we will go with (until NY state outlaws them, they are going after these systems right now).

I am looking for green and self sustaining. I am reading about this annualized solar idea. It seems pretty new.

Any ideas for electricty? Looking for clean and cheap.
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Old 04-16-2011, 07:12 AM
 
1,216 posts, read 1,463,353 times
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I really like this annual geo solar idea. And I like the idea of building a greenhouse to enjoy that provides the heat. There are so many benefits to it, number 1 being it is FREE number 2 being it is clean. The idea that my home will be heated with no use of any power source blows my mind. I need to look into it more but it's gotten me really excited. We could have another ice storm and be powerless for a week and our house would still be heated (by the third year up to 70F)?? Am I understanding this correctly? Why doesn't everyone do this if it is this simply and cheap?

Okay while I was in the shower I was thinking two things. 1- this should probably be in another thread besides frugal living, but not sure where. 2- There must be some electricity involved, a thermostate type of thing in order to remove the heat from the ground and put it into the house when it is needed. I don't understand how the heat is transferred into the ground for storage or how it is transferred into the house.

Last edited by NaleyRocks; 04-16-2011 at 07:38 AM..
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Old 04-16-2011, 08:00 AM
 
5,760 posts, read 11,542,728 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NaleyRocks View Post
I really like this annual geo solar idea. And I like the idea of building a greenhouse to enjoy that provides the heat. There are so many benefits to it, number 1 being it is FREE number 2 being it is clean. The idea that my home will be heated with no use of any power source blows my mind. I need to look into it more but it's gotten me really excited. We could have another ice storm and be powerless for a week and our house would still be heated (by the third year up to 70F)?? Am I understanding this correctly?
We are doing solar thermal greenhouses that get warm and "coast" through three days of winter clouds. Solar Thermal on the roof is collected and put into the concrete floor with water tubes. The concrete gets hot and stays hot. But these are No Where near as extreme as the conditions you are likely in.

Maybe learn from nature? What do the long-term residents of your area? Talking animals -- not people. People tend to be newbies on the block compared to the critters.

I am thinking the 1000's of years history animals in your area tend to either:

1. Migrate. Get out of the cold for the winter. Millions of birds head South every year, and looking larger, I think the Buffalo (aka Bison) used to head relatively South for the Winter, too.

2. Dig in and hibernate. Bears are not so much travelers, but deal with the cold by getting out of it -- underground, caves, etc.

3. Hunker down with a thick coat and be cold. I am thinking deer, elk and moose use this method.

No heat required in any of those. Suppose I would tend to pick them in that order. First 1, then 2, and then 3.

1. Migrate -- Gramma and Granpa figured this one out and left you with the bills. Thanks! Thanks a lot!

2. Dig in -- Yes, underground/buried/sheltered housing would be a HUGE savings for you, in terms of heating.

3. Hunker down and be cold -- Already doing this, huh? Sucks being a deer.

Quote:
Why doesn't everyone do this if it is this simply and cheap?
[/quote]

You have to understand, that housing builders, real estate folks (and buyers) tend to be really dumb AND really set in their ways.

That combination adds up to attitude of "you can't tell me . . . " and in that they are correct. You cannot tell them. So on it goes.

It is not uncommon to see folks try to build the same house that may work well in say, Virginia -- a fairly mild climate -- in perhaps your area.

We have the same condition as you describe in Texas -- but in reverse -- huge McMansions have been built with exposed South and West facing glass with HUGE heat gains from the Summer Sun -- those folks cooling/air conditioning bills run into the thousands, same as your heating bills.

================

As far as methods to appropriately match housing to your climate and local conditions --

The general information has been available for decades -- since the late 70's and into the early 80's some excellent research and development was done.

There are so many sites and so much good information [FREE -- Do Not Pay for "Plans" or various book scams] on the web regarding this, it is hard to say where to start.

Fieldlines.com: The Otherpower discussion board - Index is a good place to start.
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Old 04-16-2011, 12:30 PM
 
1,216 posts, read 1,463,353 times
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Phil thanks for the info. I am really getting an education into the alternatives available in our area. It all started when we were told the house we are looking to buy has a geothermal heating system. It is a doublewide that we will be moving. The price is literally about half of what other used doublewides are going for in our area. In the beginning we almost didn't buy it because of the heating system. We were originally told it is an open-loop, and that is not something we want to monkey with. And there is a lot of fear of the unknown, turns out she has it priced that cheap because of the furnace, it just won't sell because people don't know what to do with it. The more we researched it the more we started to like it. This has snowballed into our learning about alternates we never knew were out there.

We are going to do a closed loop heating system, although I am looking into that one listed early for annualized geo solar and the other solar collecting one for our garage. I was thinking again that the expensive utility cost is what is making these other options seem appealing. Lets face it, if it still cost $2-$3K a year for utilities we'd be lazy and keep going with what has always been done.

So we are going to be the guinney pigs in the area. We are going to settle on an alternate and see how it fares through the winter. We've got a bunch of people who are interested, they've talked about doing something similar but have never taken the leap. We will see how it goes. I'm really excited.

Thanks to you all for the info!
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Old 04-19-2011, 10:59 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,694 posts, read 58,012,579 times
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You are just scratching the surface, there are lots of sources for good info, I like the info in organic_architecture : organic architecture
wastewatts : Sustainable Technology Discussion Group

For free electricity and heat, I would use a diesel genset running on waste fryer grease (you will need tank in heated area, I would build an enclosure for genset AND tank.

There is a place in NH or VT (green-trust that has a military surplus 3-71 diesel genset (that is WAY OVERKILL and NOISY). You can get some nice 'silent' commercial gensets off lease returns (they are not too cheap... but... it is an asset that you can always resell.) There are several other ways to get cheap diesel gensets (You can make one from a used 'reefer' unit off a semi truck., but I suggest buying one)

A friend in CA uses his VW genset 4 hrs / night. The water coolant from the genset heats his floors, the genset feeds elect into the grid, and he gets his home heated and a CHECK (instead of a bill) from the utility company every month. As he makes more power than he uses. He uses 1 gal grease / hr. (You can buy dry filtered used grease for ~$1/gal, or collect for free)

On annualized solar, your most bang for the buck is to build new and implement that + super insulation / enclosure protection. It would be quite difficult to have good results with a retro fit.

I would build 'rammed' earth (very pretty) and insulate the exterior so the entire 'Mass' is enclosed and insulated. Without drafts and with a few hundred tons of mass, your home will be very cozy in winter and very cool in summer.
rammed earth construction - Google Search

If I had an outdoor wood furnace I would be feeding it those large bales of hay, I hear they last a week.

http://www.missouriwhitetails.com/fo...200&aid=157863

Last edited by StealthRabbit; 04-19-2011 at 11:08 PM..
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Old 04-25-2011, 08:36 AM
 
Location: So. Cal
277 posts, read 626,801 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphamale View Post
I do not believe that there is a wind turbine that cost's only $15,000 that can run one house, let alone 5.

A wind turbine is set up to produce a specific amount of electricity regardless of the amount of wind....for instance, a wind turbine that is rated at 3kw will produce ONLY 3kw whether the wind blows at 50 mph or 7 mph. It will produce less if the wind doesn't blow, however.

I am a solar consultant and have seen many small wind systems. Most people are very disappointed with their wind turbines for various reasons.
I know of no wind turbines that produce full power at 7 mph, they usually make full power at pretty high wind speeds. Windmills also need to be on a very high tower to get out of the turbulent air. A proper height tower can cost $15,000 all by itself, the amount of wind an area gets has to be pretty high for a windmill to make sense.

I can see seven residential windmills from my house, all of them are Bergey 10KW windmills on 100 ft. towers.
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Old 06-15-2011, 01:49 AM
 
Location: Fairfax County, VA
3,718 posts, read 5,694,650 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by springazure View Post
Have you looked into a simple (and CHEAP) Solar Hot Air Collector for daytime heating needs?
Could you please explain what a Solar Hot Air Collector does exactly (other than what you mentioned) and how much it costs? Thanks.
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