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Old 05-03-2011, 08:34 PM
 
12,867 posts, read 14,852,227 times
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i guess it is the same all over, here it looks like a credit card that they swipe.

i don't know if that is national or not.

this video shows a food stamp "crisis" in 2008 and we are way beyond those numbers now.


YouTube - Food Stamp Frenzy

a more recent video of the accelerating demand:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2dVihb9O9Y



just in idaho, almost 228,000 Idahoans are now on food stamps.The state has the largest growth in enrollment in the nation.In just one hour, cashiers rang up more than 570 customers.In 2007, roughly 87,000 Idahoans needed food stamps. Five years later that number has jumped to nearly 228,000.

Last edited by floridasandy; 05-03-2011 at 08:46 PM..
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Old 05-04-2011, 12:06 AM
 
4,765 posts, read 3,709,888 times
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I do not know what to make of this thread. To me the primary concern should be that we have so many people in this great country who need help with basic necessities. Secondly, it should be about making sure folks are not starving in America.

But, it simply sounds like the emphasis here is all about what some politician said, that is considered "outrageous". Or about some portion that is fraud. Certainly fraud needs to be contained, but not if it will leave hungry children as unintended casualties. Yeah, I know, I must be "pro" fraud because I think we should make sure our children aren't starving! Let's not let politics and the so-called "bad apples", become the primary focus when feeding hungry people should be paramount.

I believe the government has been taking steps to clamp down on fraud and the food stamp "debit" card is one of them. The card is matched to the recipients via IDs and can be tracked to the point of purchase. Much easier to limit fraud than traditional food stamps.

Here is a link that describes the multiplier effect, FWIW:

Multiplier Effect & Food Stamps | eHow.com
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Old 05-04-2011, 01:55 AM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,305,232 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WannaliveinGreenville View Post
I thought food stamps came on a Debit Card set up ?

Yes, Food Stamps now are distributed electronically through debit cards For many years they were pieces of paper that came in a little book about the length and width of a pad of checks, and could be detached at point of sale the same way you might write a check and then detach the check from the pad it was originally on.

Food Stamps used to come in denonimations of $1 and $5, probably also $10 and maybe $20. Change was given in dollar-denominated food stamps and I think change less than a dollar could be given in coin. (buy a $3 item, pay with $10, get a $5 food stamp and 2 $1 food stamps)
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Old 05-04-2011, 04:12 AM
 
12,867 posts, read 14,852,227 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaker281 View Post
I do not know what to make of this thread. To me the primary concern should be that we have so many people in this great country who need help with basic necessities. Secondly, it should be about making sure folks are not starving in America.

But, it simply sounds like the emphasis here is all about what some politician said, that is considered "outrageous". Or about some portion that is fraud. Certainly fraud needs to be contained, but not if it will leave hungry children as unintended casualties. Yeah, I know, I must be "pro" fraud because I think we should make sure our children aren't starving! Let's not let politics and the so-called "bad apples", become the primary focus when feeding hungry people should be paramount.

I believe the government has been taking steps to clamp down on fraud and the food stamp "debit" card is one of them. The card is matched to the recipients via IDs and can be tracked to the point of purchase. Much easier to limit fraud than traditional food stamps.

Here is a link that describes the multiplier effect, FWIW:

Multiplier Effect & Food Stamps | eHow.com
the thread has been posted for several reasons
1) to help stop the disinformation about the "economic recovery" so people don't make the mistake of believing it and behaving imprudently financially

2) to point out that the fraud would be increasing-siimply because the numbers of people getting it are increasing dramatically. either the country is in DIRE financial straits, with many people with virtually no assets, or the fraud is increasing.

3) to ultimately suggest that maybe this country is on an unsustainable course and will actually have to change the way they distribute food to the poor in this country. perhaps we will have to go to a system like the military-where we distribute actual food and thus eliminate all possibility of fraud. if you see the dramatic increase you can see that this is not going to be sustainable (just look at the difference from 2008 to now in the video)

4) IMHO, pelosi can jam her multiplier effect because it is bogus. you have to take it from the productive sector to give it to the non-productive sector-which implies a reduction in the productive sector's capability to produce.

of course, those kind of theories give the government more power to take from the private sector. ask yourself if we are better financiallyas a country with the massive growth in government we are seeing? we are spending TRILLIONS and where are we?????

5) not addressing the uncontrolled borders also contributes to the massive increase. we need some leadership quickly, because nobody can deny the numbers out there.
maybe changing the way that food is distributed in this country would wake people up to realize that things are going to have to change, and they might pay actually pay attention to what is going on.

Last edited by floridasandy; 05-04-2011 at 04:36 AM..
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Old 05-04-2011, 05:40 AM
 
4,765 posts, read 3,709,888 times
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At this point it is hard to imagine there is anyone who does not know what problems we are facing. Still, kudos for selflessly thinking of others.

Yes, I already knew this was another angle in the ongoing tirade against big government and illegal immigration. Let's try not to shame too many hungry children in the process.
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Old 05-04-2011, 07:10 AM
 
Location: "Daytonnati"
4,244 posts, read 7,136,384 times
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Food stamp use has been increasing in certain areas throughout the 2000s. The government publishes the consoldiated federal funds reports where you can track expenditures by county,and they have this going back a few years. What is good about this is that Food Stamps used to not be indexed to inflation, so you could track true program growth vs growth due to inflation, using these numbers.

Heres the site if any of you are interesting in whats being spend in your neck of the woods:

Consolidated Federal Funds Report

So sure, I'd expect a big spike in the use of food stamps if people are unemployed or getting re-employed at low-paying jobs to where they are eligible for food stamps.

Another indirect subsidy to people who are working at low-wage jobs is the Earned Income Tax Credit, or EITC. This is a tax credit, but it is in-effect and sort of rerverse subsidy since you dont have to pay as much tax if you qualify for the credit. Brookings has some good data & intel on this...


Earned Income Tax Credit Series

The only catch to this program is that you have to be working..ie paying taxes...to qualify. Yet you can also be working and qualify for food stamps.


Taken together, food stamps and the EITC function as our "dole", a subsidy to people who are in low wage jobs. If there are more and more people in these jobs the more the government will pay (or not take in) via these programs.
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:35 AM
 
12,867 posts, read 14,852,227 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaker281 View Post
At this point it is hard to imagine there is anyone who does not know what problems we are facing. Still, kudos for selflessly thinking of others.

Yes, I already knew this was another angle in the ongoing tirade against big government and illegal immigration. Let's try not to shame too many hungry children in the process.
are you kidding? there are some people on this forum constantly trumpeting our economic recovery/turnaround, and a lot of people were hurt during the housing boom and bust. i am pretty sure that some people still don't get it in high places, like today's news:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011...tcmp=obnetwork


i don't know how you saw "hungry children" being shamed in my post.

dayton sux, nice post. i was actually shocked at the amount that was spent on HHS as a percentage of state budgets, on the federal aid to states report-324.8 billion to health and human services in the last year posted. (compared to 45 billion for education as an example and 47.3 billion to other agencies).

Last edited by floridasandy; 05-04-2011 at 11:58 AM..
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Old 05-04-2011, 04:43 PM
 
Location: Near a river
16,042 posts, read 21,898,619 times
Reputation: 15773
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaker281 View Post
I do not know what to make of this thread. To me the primary concern should be that we have so many people in this great country who need help with basic necessities. Secondly, it should be about making sure folks are not starving in America.

But, it simply sounds like the emphasis here is all about what some politician said, that is considered "outrageous". Or about some portion that is fraud. Certainly fraud needs to be contained, but not if it will leave hungry children as unintended casualties. Yeah, I know, I must be "pro" fraud because I think we should make sure our children aren't starving! Let's not let politics and the so-called "bad apples", become the primary focus when feeding hungry people should be paramount.

I believe the government has been taking steps to clamp down on fraud and the food stamp "debit" card is one of them. The card is matched to the recipients via IDs and can be tracked to the point of purchase. Much easier to limit fraud than traditional food stamps.

Here is a link that describes the multiplier effect, FWIW:

Multiplier Effect & Food Stamps | eHow.com
I have stood in line many times behind folks with food stamp debit cards with several kids in tow and shopping carts loaded to the hilt with so much junk food it's deplorable. I mean, huge boxes of Doritos, crappy cookies, soda by the case, artificial drinks, sugar laden cereals, you name it. This is making sure children don't starve??? (I'm not even going to attempt to address trading or selling to buy alcohol and cigs, etc).

Food stamps should only be able to be used for real food items like meats, dairy and fresh produce. Period. If people want to pig out on ice cream let them pay for it out of pocket. If real food were the limit, the Fed could issue far less in benefits per household. Now, who in the Fed would ever think of that...
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Old 05-04-2011, 04:54 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
13,139 posts, read 22,708,718 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floridasandy View Post
Today SNAP released the most recent food stamp numbers. Not surprisingly, we just saw another all time high 44.2 million poverty-level Americans relying on government funding for day to day sustenance.

the economy is running on fumes and we're not even headed towards a gas station.

i guess when everyone is on food stamps, it will be this administration's "mission accomplished" moment.

this ties directly to the mentality (as observed here via nancy pelosi), on how food stamps create "wealth".....:


At a press conference in her home town of San Francisco, Pelosi explained that the program’s multiplier effect –the amount of money generated in the local economy as the result of the subsidy– far exceeds the nearly $60 billion spent this year by the federal government and is a sure-fire way to stimulate the economy. For every dollar a person receives in food stamps, Pelosi said that $1.79 is put back into the economy. The U.S. Department of Agriculture cites an even higher figure of $1.84.

According to Pelosi the multiplier effect for food stamps is 1.79 and the Agriculture Department cites an even more absurd multiplier of 1.84. The absurdity of the multiplier effect can be easily proven by reductio ad absurdum. If the multiplier effect is true why don’t we just spend an infinite amount of money then we will be infinitely wealthy? You cannot create wealth by taking money from one person (who created the wealth) and giving it to another person to spend –(on food in this case).

do they actually believe this, or do they just want us to think they do?

Entropy proves that you cannot even get $1 of return for each $1 spent on food stamps. the obvious losses include the cost of the bureaucrats to run the food stamp program, the time, effort and gas the recipients expend to obtain the food stamps. This does not add to GDP, since it is CONSUMPTION. Economists seem confused that the P in GDP is for spending or consumption, when it stands for Product or PRODUCTION.
Make someone dependant on you and you essentially *own* them. In the olden days, you had to actually create something to feed your slaves, buy chains and pay someone to whip them when they didn't do what you wanted them to do.

Now you just issue them welfare cards funded by imaginary mad money that you made out of thin air and threaten to take it away once you've got them by the balls. Who says we haven't progressed as a species?
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Old 05-04-2011, 05:09 PM
 
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it all comes down to the direction that we want to go as a country. people don't like the messenger but somebody is going to have to figure something out- because of the way the numbers are rising so quickly.

every dependent person is one less person contributing to the welfare of the country as a whole.

on a (somewhat) related theme, i am getting irked when i keep getting accosted by people begging for money for schools, band, cheerleading, trips,veterans, etc.

there are adults doing this along with the kids. how do they set an example by teaching begging?

i will ALWAYS give a donation if they provide some kind of service (bake sale, carwash, girl scout cookies, hoagies, poppy,even those little tootsie rolls, etc.) as i think it rewards good behavior, but what has happened that people just stand around with a can and panhandle? it is pervasive down here, maybe not everywhere.

of course, i did also complain when i was up in new york and was provided with the "service" of people jumping on my car and washing my windshield.
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