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Old 05-13-2011, 02:55 PM
 
Location: NJ
31,771 posts, read 40,711,393 times
Reputation: 24590

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Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
I really have no idea whether its true for "most renters", but what useful information does one derive from this in terms of finances? None. Whether or not most renters can in principle buy or not has no barring on whether or not its cheaper to rent vs own in some area. I'll ask again, if renting is cheaper as is the case in many areas of the country, how is it frugal to own?

I'm not really concerned whether a bunch of coupon-clippers take my advice, I'm only concerned with the general issues. Namely, focusing on pennies while you ignore the pounds. Buying into an over-valued real estate market is definitely ignoring the pounds....
because in the real world, most renters arent frugal. it seems home ownership is one of those things people strive for even though it may not be the smartest financial option. so if someone wants to make a commentary on "renters" they should deal with the reality of renters in this world, not the concept that renting can be the frugal move.

nobody should take your advice on anything. you are braindead.
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Old 05-13-2011, 03:03 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,460 posts, read 20,092,270 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
because in the real world, most renters arent frugal. it seems home ownership is one of those things people strive for even though it may not be the smartest financial option.
What reason is there to believe that most renters aren't frugal? Since renters on average are lower-income, it would seem that they are more frugal than owners not less.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
so if someone wants to make a commentary on "renters" they should deal with the reality of renters in this world, not the concept that renting can be the frugal move.
Why? The aggregate statistics for renters has nothing to do with whether or not renting is cheaper in some community vs owning. You appear to want to imply causation from mere correlation....I'm not sure why else you'd care about the aggregate statistics on this matter.

And yes, ownership is something that many people strive for even when its a poor financial decision, that is because people (especially suburbanites) derive status from renting from the bank...I mean owning. But this is just the point, penny-pinching is never going to make up for being pound-foolish.
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Old 05-13-2011, 03:08 PM
 
Location: NJ
31,771 posts, read 40,711,393 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
What reason is there to believe that most renters aren't frugal? Since renters on average are lower-income, it would seem that they are more frugal than owners not less.


Why? The aggregate statistics for renters has nothing to do with whether or not renting is cheaper in some community vs owning. You appear to want to imply causation from mere correlation....I'm not sure why else you'd care about the aggregate statistics on this matter.
im not sure where you live, but i live in nj and work in nyc. i know renters. they arent frugal. i could probably come up with some actual statistics, i think someone mentioned them not too long ago in the nj forum. ill try a little searching later.

im not saying renting cant be a cheaper alternative to owning. thats part of your insanity. i just said in the real world most renters are people who arent doing well financially and arent good savers. then you shifted over to whether or not renting is a frugal option. im not arguing that.
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Old 05-13-2011, 03:24 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,460 posts, read 20,092,270 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
im not saying renting cant be a cheaper alternative to owning. thats part of your insanity. i just said in the real world most renters are people who arent doing well financially and arent good savers. then you shifted over to whether or not renting is a frugal option. im not arguing that.
And I'll ask again, what useful information can one derive from "most renters are people who aren't doing well financially"? Did you just randomly want to insert this into the discussion?

The issue was the (causal) relationship between frugality and owning vs renting.
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Old 05-13-2011, 03:44 PM
 
Location: The Triad
34,091 posts, read 83,000,140 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post

The issue was the (causal) relationship between frugality and owning vs renting.
Well, maybe to you it was/is.
But no one else commenting seems to consider finding causal relationships of that sort as being even peripherally related to the lifestyle dynamics of living frugally for people who have (varying) reason to do so in H-COL areas.

just what is it that is showing up on your screen that no one else sees?
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Old 05-13-2011, 04:35 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,460 posts, read 20,092,270 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
Well, maybe to you it was/is.
As I pointed out earlier, I was responding to a particular comment. Its best to keep track of these sorts of things. Now, its certainly possible that I misunderstood the poster, but then its his job to clarify matters (if he so wishes). No idea why you keep yapping about a comment I made towards another poster who left the discussion. Don't you have some coupons to cut or something? Just a thought...
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Old 05-13-2011, 08:06 PM
 
Location: Southern California
3,113 posts, read 8,381,186 times
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My parents were extremely frugal - but real estate was VERY important to them - so we lived in the most expensive area, in a great house! They were frugal in other areas, and spent the bulk of their money on the thing that mattered most to them - their home. And it worked out really well for them.

It was a great childhood, but I have different priorities - so I live in a much less expensive area, in a less expensive house - but I still get to enjoy all that Southern California has to offer. So many people assume that California has a high cost of living, but if you go a little inland, it can be cheaper to live here, than it is in lots of other states. It's really a great bargain! And I'm only two hours from downtown Los Angeles, and all it has to offer, and even closer to the beach, and I'm only 30 minutes from the mountains and snow in winter.

I think it's very possible to live on the outskirts of an expensive area, and still enjoy all the perks the expensive area offers - but spend far less on housing, than you would if you lived right in the thick of things.
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Old 05-13-2011, 08:22 PM
 
Location: NJ
31,771 posts, read 40,711,393 times
Reputation: 24590
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
Why would the renters not be frugal? Over the last decade renting has been the cheaper option in both the west and east cost, so its now frugal to spend more money on the same thing?!
its funny user how you like to think that you can control the conversation. i was responding to this post originally in which you are asking why renters wouldnt be frugal. well, while renting may be a frugal option, in reality most renters arent frugal. now to go along and answer the question of "why" i guess we can give some guesses. i think part of it is that almost anyone can rent but not almost anyone can own. to own you need a track record of responsible spending and saving and stable income. also, it seems to be baked into our culture that home ownership is something to strive for regardless of whether or not it is the best financial move. so people work to achieve it and many renters are failures at reaching that goal. i believe if you polled renters you would find that most would prefer to be owners.
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Old 05-13-2011, 08:29 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,460 posts, read 20,092,270 times
Reputation: 4365
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
its funny user how you like to think that you can control the conversation.
Its not about controlling the conversation, its about appropriately following the conversation, in particular the context of the comments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
i was responding to this post originally in which you are asking why renters wouldnt be frugal. well, while renting may be a frugal option, in reality most renters arent frugal.
Right, I asked that and mentioning a correlation (with no support at all) between renting and not being frugal doesn't address it. As a said before, you seem to want to infer a causal relationship between renting and lack of frugality, but a correlation even if true doesn't support that.
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Old 05-13-2011, 08:39 PM
 
Location: Middle America
37,409 posts, read 53,593,150 times
Reputation: 53073
I lived in Chicago as a stipended volunteer in a national program, where my compensation as a full-time volunteer was room and board, health insurance, and an $80/mo grocery stipend. I also received $85/mo as a personal stipend from my agency. I lived very simply and frugally by living co-op style with five other volunteers in the same program, and we pooled our grocery stipend and stretched that money by eating a primarily meatless diet, buying in bulk, and cooking from scratch. We were all recent college graduates, and as such, went out often, but sought out the loads of cheap/free activities available in our city. I don't know how sustainable the relatively spartan lifestyle would have been over the long term, but it was totally doable for a bunch of kids just out of the dorms.
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