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Old 09-08-2023, 10:02 PM
 
Location: moved
13,646 posts, read 9,701,990 times
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The real cost isn't per square foot, but in the location of the domicile. Consider the village of tiny-houses upthread. Cozy and economical, right? Well, that's in California... beautiful state, but the residents are going to be paying California state income tax... which can get very, very expensive. A 4000 sq ft McMansion in say Wyoming might be more economical, once the tax-situation is taken into account.

Then there's the distinction between land-area and size of dwelling. One example might be an austere, threadbare cabin plopped amidst vast private acreage. Another is modernist luxury new-construction shoehorned into a 3000 sq ft semi-urban "empty lot". Which is the more frugal?

 
Old 09-08-2023, 11:02 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,018 posts, read 14,191,607 times
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Default Tiny Apartment, Soviet Style

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khrushchevka

In America, you'll find single family housing (SFH), whereas in the former USSR, you'll find block after block of 5 story apartments, made of panelized concrete and compact in comparison to American counterparts.
Typical apartments of the K-7 series have a total area of 30 m2 (323 sq ft) (one-room), 44 m2 (474 sq ft) (two-room) and 60 m2 (646 sq ft) (three-room). Later designs further reduced these meager areas.
[ A typical American "starter home" is between 1200 and 1400 sq ft ]

64,000 units (3,000,000 m2 (32,000,000 sq ft)) of this type were built in Moscow from 1961 to 1968. The Khrushchyovkas were cheap, and sometimes an entire building could be constructed within two weeks.

I could find no specific tally of the number of Khrushchyovkas built across the Soviet Union. Vague references to millions having been built - and nothing more.

https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/20...ure-in-ukraine

The bulk of the Ukrainian capital’s housing stock dates from the times of Soviet leaders Joseph Stalin, Nikita Khrushchev, and Leonid Brezhnev. These housing blocks – containing dozens of apartments with four to six square-metre kitchens, thin brick walls, midget hallways and one to three rooms – are known as Khrushchyovkas and represent a big percentage of total housing in Kiev today: 3,055 buildings that include some 211,512 apartments.

: : : : : : : : : : :
Humorous music video showing the peculiarities of the khrushchyovka. Pioneers of the "tiny house" concept, indeed. From the movie : Stilyagi ("Hipsters").

https://youtu.be/UavmKtLIV3Y?t=597
 
Old 09-08-2023, 11:25 PM
 
Location: Dayton OH
5,761 posts, read 11,363,264 times
Reputation: 13544
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khrushchevka

In America, you'll find single family housing (SFH), whereas in the former USSR, you'll find block after block of 5 story apartments, made of panelized concrete and compact in comparison to American counterparts.
Typical apartments of the K-7 series have a total area of 30 m2 (323 sq ft) (one-room), 44 m2 (474 sq ft) (two-room) and 60 m2 (646 sq ft) (three-room). Later designs further reduced these meager areas.
[ A typical American "starter home" is between 1200 and 1400 sq ft ]

64,000 units (3,000,000 m2 (32,000,000 sq ft)) of this type were built in Moscow from 1961 to 1968. The Khrushchyovkas were cheap, and sometimes an entire building could be constructed within two weeks.

I could find no specific tally of the number of Khrushchyovkas built across the Soviet Union. Vague references to millions having been built - and nothing more.

https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/20...ure-in-ukraine

The bulk of the Ukrainian capital’s housing stock dates from the times of Soviet leaders Joseph Stalin, Nikita Khrushchev, and Leonid Brezhnev. These housing blocks – containing dozens of apartments with four to six square-metre kitchens, thin brick walls, midget hallways and one to three rooms – are known as Khrushchyovkas and represent a big percentage of total housing in Kiev today: 3,055 buildings that include some 211,512 apartments.

: : : : : : : : : : :
Humorous music video showing the peculiarities of the khrushchyovka. Pioneers of the "tiny house" concept, indeed. From the movie : Stilyagi ("Hipsters").

https://youtu.be/UavmKtLIV3Y?t=597
My apartment building here in Chemnitz was built in the communist era, 1961, but fortunately just before the panelized concrete construction boom started. That means the concrete block walls are thicker than the panelized apartments (Plattenbau in German). Here in Chemnitz, there are tens of thousands of communist era panelized apartments, but fortunately the vast majority were designed with larger and more comfortable apartment design than in the USSR. The streets or complex often have communist era names (Karl Marx Strasse, Friederich Engels Strasse, etc). Most have been nicely renovated in the past couple of decades, and for the most part there is no shortage of people that want to move in. Chemnitz has the lowest rent prices of any large city in Germany.

The problem with many panelized concrete buildings in Europe and the USSR is the wall thickness is too thin for good sound blocking. Many panelized buildings skimped on construction by putting the bathrooms and kitchens towards the inside with no windows, with just bedrooms and living room on the outside walls with windows. Although the vast majority are usually 4 story walk up (no elevator), there are some larger buildings with 6 to 12 stories or more that have elevators. There is one such building not far from where I live that has sat abandoned for a decade or more near a main intersection, one of the ugliest buildings in town. No developer wants to buy it because the apartments are all too small to attract renters if a renovation was done - can't change the concrete wall design on the interior to make any design changes.
 
Old 09-09-2023, 04:52 AM
 
Location: Texas Hill Country
23,656 posts, read 13,969,723 times
Reputation: 18856
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wile E. Coyote View Post
Oh, Tamara, I could never do the whole wild kingdom thing you got going on. .
I said I could, but I haven't yet. Conceptually, IF, the most likely, are free running cats, a cat in isolation room 1 (dance room), one in isolation room 2 (loft), a dog in the dog room (utility/ante).

Long story short, in relation to our thread, frugality is easiest to figure out when it is only you but when others depend on you, not only is it more difficult but perhaps it is a word that should not even be in the lexicon.

With frugality, one is calculating how to get by while still cutting down. With the ranch and rescues, it is "I have all this room, let me give more time for that cat (or dog), that human who needs it to find the distinguished member of the 4 legged gang furever home." So in the human concept, it may be a paradox.

BUT, in the grand picture, can one be frugal while doing the other. In at least one sense, yes, such as where one sacrifices their own comforts so to supply to the mission. In my case, that is alcohol but another example might be realizing one is part of the pack, that it is not human and animal, and we all share much together. That is, say, the rooms and things that are traditionally human only; the bed, the couch, the bathroom are no longer human only spaces. Further, it might be there in concepts of living in the forest with the animals.......but I am still trying to figure out that "vision".

Can frugality be an overall philosophy?
 
Old 09-09-2023, 06:48 AM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,018 posts, read 14,191,607 times
Reputation: 16740
Quote:
Originally Posted by recycled View Post
My apartment building here in Chemnitz was built in the communist era, 1961, but fortunately just before the panelized concrete construction boom started. That means the concrete block walls are thicker than the panelized apartments (Plattenbau in German). Here in Chemnitz, there are tens of thousands of communist era panelized apartments, but fortunately the vast majority were designed with larger and more comfortable apartment design than in the USSR. The streets or complex often have communist era names (Karl Marx Strasse, Friederich Engels Strasse, etc). Most have been nicely renovated in the past couple of decades, and for the most part there is no shortage of people that want to move in. Chemnitz has the lowest rent prices of any large city in Germany.

The problem with many panelized concrete buildings in Europe and the USSR is the wall thickness is too thin for good sound blocking. Many panelized buildings skimped on construction by putting the bathrooms and kitchens towards the inside with no windows, with just bedrooms and living room on the outside walls with windows. Although the vast majority are usually 4 story walk up (no elevator), there are some larger buildings with 6 to 12 stories or more that have elevators. There is one such building not far from where I live that has sat abandoned for a decade or more near a main intersection, one of the ugliest buildings in town. No developer wants to buy it because the apartments are all too small to attract renters if a renovation was done - can't change the concrete wall design on the interior to make any design changes.
[1] That's interesting. Can you list some typical sizes?
[2] For acoustic dampening you need both a hard surface (to reflect) and a soft surface (to absorb). A hard surface will still transmit impact noise. A sandwich of hard+soft+hard (two thin shells surrounding insulation) would be great.
[3] The bathrooms do have windows - but not to the outside. In case of power outage, the bathrooms had a high window so ambient light might illuminate.
[4] Soviet health/safety standards specified five stories as the maximum height of a building without an elevator. Thus almost all khrushchevkas (in the USSR) have five stories. With stairwells designed so that a coffin can be hand carried without obstruction.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZN-419d7vt4
 
Old 09-09-2023, 07:59 AM
 
24,488 posts, read 10,815,620 times
Reputation: 46784
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
[1] That's interesting. Can you list some typical sizes?
[2] For acoustic dampening you need both a hard surface (to reflect) and a soft surface (to absorb). A hard surface will still transmit impact noise. A sandwich of hard+soft+hard (two thin shells surrounding insulation) would be great.
[3] The bathrooms do have windows - but not to the outside. In case of power outage, the bathrooms had a high window so ambient light might illuminate.
[4] Soviet health/safety standards specified five stories as the maximum height of a building without an elevator. Thus almost all khrushchevkas (in the USSR) have five stories. With stairwells designed so that a coffin can be hand carried without obstruction.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZN-419d7vt4
It is called Plattenbau.
 
Old 09-09-2023, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Sunnybrook Farm
4,511 posts, read 2,656,277 times
Reputation: 13004
Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea View Post
...A "tiny-house" is what used to be called a starter home, where the goal is less the housing at the time, but long range goals....
No, today's "tiny house" is a trailer that you park in your parents' back yard so you can use their shower, washing machine, dryer, etc., and then claim you're being all innovative and "low impact". It's not a sustainable way to live.
 
Old 09-09-2023, 10:00 AM
 
2,050 posts, read 993,379 times
Reputation: 6199
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
With stairwells designed so that a coffin can be hand carried without obstruction.
Now that's what I call planning ahead!
 
Old 09-09-2023, 10:41 AM
 
14,299 posts, read 11,681,163 times
Reputation: 39059
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikala43 View Post
Everyone travels to my house for one of the holidays. 6 more adults, and 7 extra dogs. During that time my house feels very, very.... small.
Sure, but the alternative to having your house feel very, very small during one of the holidays would be having your house feel very, very big for 51 weeks out of the year.
 
Old 09-09-2023, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Middle of the valley
48,518 posts, read 34,815,517 times
Reputation: 73734
Quote:
Originally Posted by saibot View Post
Sure, but the alternative to having your house feel very, very small during one of the holidays would be having your house feel very, very big for 51 weeks out of the year.
But it doesn't. It's all used on a regular basis. It's not super big, 2800 sq ft for two.
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