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Old 02-22-2024, 12:31 PM
 
27,182 posts, read 43,876,617 times
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I really wish those as fraught up with outrage over potential Snap benefits fraud (estimated at 0.9% of all cases) spent half as much time/outrage over the tax evasion practices of multimillion dollar corporations and the top 3% wage earners. Or over the fact that a disabled senior citizen receives a whopping $180 per month for groceries, or $45 a week. Work those numbers and see where the outrage should exist...

 
Old 02-22-2024, 01:50 PM
 
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We qualify for food stamps but you'd never know it. We drive a nice 2020 electric car, live in a beautiful 1375 foot cabin. Beautiful Masonry with the steps and fireplace, wood pillars from wood off our property. If your husband was or is handy, or in the trades, free materials can turn quite elegant looking. People think our bathrooms are artsy, the truth is, we acquired the materials free. We stained, painted, it to look that way. Stone floor because it's the cheapest yet looks fantastic. Yet we live well at poverty level with about $300 a month of disposable income each month. Retiree Health plans, a garden and tiny "pond" area provide the majority of our food/health needs. Do not need food stamps.

Last edited by TruckeeTami; 02-22-2024 at 02:06 PM..
 
Old 02-22-2024, 02:18 PM
 
Location: on the wind
23,265 posts, read 18,777,131 times
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I once had to share an agency bunkhouse with a very experienced mooch. She had this problem...she didn't like to work. So, she'd take some temp job just long enough to be eligible for unemployment, quit, then subsist on that as long as possible. She applied for every taxpayer-funded handout possible. Food stamps, dairy product handouts, free clinics, whatever. She tried to coax me into letting her borrow my membership card to the old version of Costco back when it was a government employee discount store. I was employed and I refused to engage in fraud. She thought I was a horrible un-Christian person
 
Old 02-22-2024, 06:31 PM
 
7,752 posts, read 3,785,899 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle19125 View Post
I really wish those as fraught up with outrage over potential Snap benefits fraud (estimated at 0.9% of all cases)
Incorrect. Estimates are between 6 and 10% depending on the source, including recipients selling/bartering their rightfully earned SNAP benefits so they have cash to spend on drugs and booze.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle19125 View Post
...spent half as much time/outrage over the tax evasion practices of multimillion dollar corporations
1. You are off-topic.

2. There are no tax evasion practices in multimillion dollar corporations.

But this brings up a great point - it is stupid to tax corporations in the first place.

I hesitate to turn this into a generalized economics discussion rather than a discussion of SNAP but I must correct one of your errors.

Corporations do not pay taxes. They merely collect and forward cash to various taxing authorities. The actual payers of income tax are actual people: customers, employees, and owners.

One of the fundamental lessons of economics is that the entity who bears the statutory burden of paying any tax (filling out the tax forms and sending money to the IRS & other taxing authorities) isn't who actually bears the burden of the tax.

A bit more formally, EVERY tax on a business is borne by actual people - living, breathing, people - not by companies:
  • X% is borne by customers in the form of prices higher than they otherwise would be
  • Y% is borne by employees in the form of total compensation (and hours worked) lower than they otherwise would be
  • Z% is borne by business owners (shareholders) in the form of profits lower than they otherwise would be

...where X+Y+Z=1.0 (that is, X%+Y%+Z%=100.0%)

Quite literally, there is nowhere else for the tax to flow: it is always paid by real people.

Think of it this way: in a state that imposes a sales tax, when you go to the grocery store & buy laundry soap, you pay sales tax at the register right?

Actually, you don't pay sales tax -- the grocery store is responsible for filling out sales tax forms & sending the forms plus money to the state/county/city. But of course you DO bear the burden of that sales tax even though you didn't fill out sales tax forms to forward to the state/county/city.

That grocery store is merely collecting & forwarding the sales tax. The same is true for ALL taxes levied on companies & businesses.

***

It varies by year, but total business income taxes paid to the IRS have been in the $250 Billion to $425 Billion range for quite some time. Those same businesses spend another $350 - $450 Billion on armies of tax accountants and tax lawyers just to fill out the paperwork & send a wire transfer to the IRS, and to plan for the following year's income tax obligations. https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/stat...revenue-source

The VP of Tax at a Fortune 500 company actually printed out their federal income tax form and brought it out on stage at a conference during a presentation as a prop. Well, he didn't personally bring it out - it came out on hand trucks (or dollies, if you prefer). Multiple hand trucks with boxes and boxes of paper. And a ladder. When set on stage and stacked, it was something like 10 feet tall.

It is incredibly inefficient for businesses to spend $350-$450 Billion on armies of accountants to fill out the tax forms, when the actual burden of the income tax falls on people like you and me: customers, employees, and owners.

It would be far more efficient to eliminate corporate income tax altogether and raise the same amount of tax revenue by just taxing people directly. Raise income tax rates on people like you and me while eliminating income tax obligations altogether on corporations. It would eliminate the dead weight loss of those armies of tax accountants and tax attorneys. Those future unemployed tax accountants and tax attorneys could find other ways of putting food on the table: they could pursue exciting careers in the hospitality and food preparation industries.

Eliminate taxes on corporations but then tax shareholders. The government collects tax revenue to fund governmental activities, corporations do not waste money on convoluted tax planning, and shareholders are better off because earnings are taxed once and the companies they own are more efficient.

Everyone would be better off. Except for the future unemployed tax accountants and tax attorneys.



SO, I hope you will join me in calling for an end to all taxes on businesses and corporations.
 
Old 02-22-2024, 07:47 PM
 
239 posts, read 106,660 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moguldreamer View Post
Incorrect. Estimates are between 6 and 10% depending on the source, including recipients selling/bartering their rightfully earned SNAP benefits so they have cash to spend on drugs and booze.
How do you know they are spending their money on cash and booze? Nothing you say matters beyond that snide comment.
 
Old 02-22-2024, 07:56 PM
 
Location: PNW
7,492 posts, read 3,223,452 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moguldreamer View Post
Personal knowledge. Audit-by-exception is the method used throughout government for self-reporting systems. The IRS uses an audit-by-exception system: every payor tells the federal government how much they paid a person (banks, employers, stock brokers, etc etc); every person says how much they were paid; the computer systems do a match with audit-by-exception. The Minerals Management Service (MMS) of the Department of the Interior also uses an audit-by-exception system. MMS is the 2nd largest collector of money, behind the IRS; the MMS tracks & collects royalties a rental payments on federally owned land for oil, natural gas, timber, coal, geothermal, etc - producers report how much is produced (barrels, cubic feet, etc); pipelines report inputs and outputs; refiners report how much they receive from pipelines & extractors, and so on and so on. It is all matched with an audit-by-exception system to designed to identify discrepancies and investigate for fraud.

The Audit-by-exception system is successfully used by social welfare entities as well.


They do not get bank balances reported. They get interest and dividends. I can see there was a proposal to get inflows and outflows on bank accounts, but the Democrats scrapped that plan to get some other legislation passed (back in 2021). They weren't even asking for balances; just the in and out (the good ole in and out).

Sales are reported. In recent years Cost Basis was added to Sale of Stocks. Also credit card transactions for businesses.

I think your wife is trying to scare you straight. LOL. Be careful with Tax people as they are worse than used car salesmen the way they sell you tax adjustments
 
Old 02-22-2024, 08:18 PM
 
253 posts, read 283,257 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wile E. Coyote View Post
They do not get bank balances reported. They get interest and dividends.
So if this is correct, scammer A who has $100k in a CD earning 5% won't be able to get away with his SNAP scam. But scammer B who has $100k in a no-frills, non-interest-bearing checking account will?
 
Old 02-22-2024, 08:19 PM
 
Location: PNW
7,492 posts, read 3,223,452 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TruckeeTami View Post
Note that these ACA Subsidies which are hundreds of dollars a month...are coming from somewhere. People certainly do not pay that much taxes to cover their hundreds of dollars a month. None do. The math doesn't add up

Yet the person making min wage working 20-30 hrs a week who gets a few hundred in food stamps is overly scrutinized.

A large family of 7 kids I knew of got like $700-800 a month in Food stamps. However, they were home-schooling so saved the taxpayer WELL over that amount per month...they were actually saving the taxpayer money. They also fed their kids from the garden so they were healthy, not costing taxpayers extra $ due to sickness. AND they adopted a child from foster care getting a measly subsidy (Subsidies are higher now) when it would cost 4x that for that older child to stay in the receiving home. This was a fellow foster parent. They saved the system a ton of $

Let's not forget the Employee Retention Tax Credit which was a huge benefit to the very well heeled. It is replete with fraud that extends into the billions.

https://www.fincen.gov/news/news-rel...C%20and%202023.

https://www.journalofaccountancy.com...oratorium.html
 
Old 02-23-2024, 06:09 AM
 
239 posts, read 106,660 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wile E. Coyote View Post
Let's not forget the Employee Retention Tax Credit which was a huge benefit to the very well heeled. It is replete with fraud that extends into the billions.

https://www.fincen.gov/news/news-rel...C%20and%202023.

https://www.journalofaccountancy.com...oratorium.html
Exactly. Worrying over extra nickles the poor might gleen versus the millions the rich glean on a regular basis.
 
Old 02-23-2024, 07:18 AM
 
7,752 posts, read 3,785,899 times
Reputation: 14656
Quote:
Originally Posted by TruckeeTami View Post
Exactly. Worrying over extra nickles the poor might gleen versus the millions the rich glean on a regular basis.
We've found the error in your logic.
  • The standard of living of poor people is in no way impacted by the standard of living of wealthy people.
  • People with very low incomes have been movin' on up to lower-middle class for decades
  • People in the middle class have been movin' on up to the upper-middle class for decades
  • People in the upper-middle class have been movin' on up to the upper class. Etc.
  • The existence of financial affluence is a goal to many poor people. It gives them an economic incentive to make more money, and in doing so, they create and add value to society.


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