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Old 08-29-2015, 02:00 AM
 
Location: Table Rock Lake
971 posts, read 1,446,783 times
Reputation: 959

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Quote:
Originally Posted by #41 View Post
Thanks. I see I can get a new carb. for ~$33. Youtube shows it's not that difficult to replace. I would just hate to replace it and it still not work.

I'll sleep on it but any other ideas or ways to narrow the issue down?
From reading your first post, you said the air cleaner was dirty but you beat off some dust and it is O.K.

The fact is that when the air cleaner gets dirty, it slows the air going through it causing a greater vacuum on the fuel side of the cleaner which sucks more gas for the engine to run on and the spark plug will be damp and black from not burning all the fuel. When the engine is burning the fuel properly, the electrodes of the spark plug will be a light tan color. I think with a new air cleaner first might be your total problem. Of course I am guessing from your description on your first post. Always start your repair with the simplest first and work your way into the more complex repairs. A dirty cleaner can cause the engine to want to run as you later described after the new plug was put in but a dirty air cleaner can flood the engine with too much gas and cause it to die. If you have a clean area that you can start the mower without raising any dust, you can leave off the air cleaner and start the engine to see if the cleaner is causing the problem. You just don't want any dust entering the engine while you are testing it.

Hope that is your total problem and wish you good luck!
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Old 08-29-2015, 02:04 AM
 
Location: LI,NY zone 7a
2,221 posts, read 2,077,694 times
Reputation: 2757
I agree High_Plains_retired, sounds like dirt in the bowl to me also. I will add a word of caution when removing the bowl. Pay close attention to it's orientation on the carb. Some bowls are not completely flat on the bottom, and have a small indentation. The indentation lines up with the hinged side of the float. If installed without lining it up could impeded the float action.

Edit: Whoops! Didn't see the dirty air cleaner. Follow Buff_dweller's advice first. Heck just buy a new air filter and be done with that part. You're gonna need one anyway.
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Old 08-29-2015, 03:02 AM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
18,755 posts, read 18,018,041 times
Reputation: 14732
It would help if people posted their model number and serial number of their motors. That way we can check online to see exactly what they have. I would like to know what motor they have, their altitude, if they have rocks and if they have hit any recently, if they have adjustment screws on the carburetor, etc.

We can send people in many directions. Sometimes those directions can make the actual repair even harder. Some people are not as handy as other people and can create problems while trouble shooting. Take the act of adjusting the carburetor: If you tighten the needle valves down too tight you can break off the tip when you back them out. On the other hand the OP's problems could boil down to dirt in either the fuel filter (if it has one), dirt against one of the needle valves that I just mentioned, the sticking needle valve (that High_Plains_retired mentioned) or even a clogged pinhole in the fuel cap. The problem could also be a small dent in the flywheel key.

I would still like to know what motor we are talking about? Toro has used Tecumseh and Briggs on their push mowers. Different motors, with different carburetors, can have different problems.
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Old 08-29-2015, 05:50 AM
#41 #41 started this thread
 
126 posts, read 253,518 times
Reputation: 55
fisheye - Sorry, you're right. I should have put my model # down. The mower is a toro 20332 push mower. I don't know if the engine has a model # but will check later.

I've got a full day ahead of me but will get a new air filter tomorrow and if I have time will do the carb cleaner, etc.

Thanks so much for the help.
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Old 08-29-2015, 07:42 AM
 
15,442 posts, read 21,268,037 times
Reputation: 28680
Quote:
Originally Posted by LIcenter View Post
I agree High_Plains_retired, sounds like dirt in the bowl to me also. I will add a word of caution when removing the bowl. Pay close attention to it's orientation on the carb. Some bowls are not completely flat on the bottom, and have a small indentation. The indentation lines up with the hinged side of the float. If installed without lining it up could impeded the float action.
I agree. Not knowing what engine was on the mower, I tried to be general in my description. You are correct about the indentation in the bottom of the bowl.

This morning I'm working on a 2-cycle snowblower. Not that I need a snowblower here on a west Texas farm but it's one we brought with us from Maryland over 15 years ago. Everyone seems to be expecting a lot of snow this winter and I thought someone around here may be able to use it.
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Old 08-29-2015, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
18,755 posts, read 18,018,041 times
Reputation: 14732
Quote:
Originally Posted by #41 View Post
fisheye - Sorry, you're right. I should have put my model # down. The mower is a toro 20332 push mower. I don't know if the engine has a model # but will check later.

I've got a full day ahead of me but will get a new air filter tomorrow and if I have time will do the carb cleaner, etc.

Thanks so much for the help.
Every engine should have the name and model/serial number. Some will be stamped right into the block itself. But I suspect yours it located on the main flywheel cover housing. You might have to take an old tooth brush and clean it off?

Chances are that you do not need any new air filter. It isn't that it would not help; it is just that you can usually clean them and put them right back on. I do not suspect the air filter as the problem - it ran good and then it did not. There are other suspects - like the sticking needle valve that was pointed out earlier.

I did search for the 20332 Toro and found out that it had a B & S on it. Do you have any rocks or have you hit anything recently? Even though I have been out of business for many decades; I suspect that B & S still have the white metal flywheel keys. I just have to ask these questions to narrow down the problem.

With the model number and serial number we can see the actual motor and make suggestions for carburetor repair kits or whatever.
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Old 08-29-2015, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Table Rock Lake
971 posts, read 1,446,783 times
Reputation: 959
It has been my expierence that anyone that works on small engines first needs to learn to read their spark plugs as that will indicate to you what is happening in their combustion chamber. It is the first item to determine if the problem is too much fuel or not enough fuel before any adjustments on the carburetor. IMO

Easy on the snow talk High_Plains_Retired, mother nature might comply! LOL
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Old 08-29-2015, 01:40 PM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,388 posts, read 17,066,923 times
Reputation: 37042
Quote:
Originally Posted by #41 View Post
Thanks. I see I can get a new carb. for ~$33. Youtube shows it's not that difficult to replace. I would just hate to replace it and it still not work.

I'll sleep on it but any other ideas or ways to narrow the issue down?
#1. Replace the spark plug. You're looking at the wrong spot for dirt; the dirt that fouls a plug is on the insulator - not the electrode. Anyway, replace it.

#2. Air cleaner. Replace or clean, whatever.

#3. Spray some starting fluid in the air intake. If the engine starts but will not continue to run, then you have some sort of carburetor problem. I can walk you through that if you need to, but try the steps above first.
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Old 08-29-2015, 04:57 PM
 
15,442 posts, read 21,268,037 times
Reputation: 28680
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluff_Dweller View Post
Easy on the snow talk High_Plains_Retired, mother nature might comply! LOL
I would rather not anyone need a snowblower but, if the rain we've received this spring and summer is any indication of snow, we may need snow plows. I hope not. This old farm is on a dirt road.
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Old 08-29-2015, 06:09 PM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
18,755 posts, read 18,018,041 times
Reputation: 14732
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
#1. Replace the spark plug. You're looking at the wrong spot for dirt; the dirt that fouls a plug is on the insulator - not the electrode. Anyway, replace it.

#2. Air cleaner. Replace or clean, whatever.

#3. Spray some starting fluid in the air intake. If the engine starts but will not continue to run, then you have some sort of carburetor problem. I can walk you through that if you need to, but try the steps above first.
I never minded selling spark plugs - but I don't think that is the OP's problem. The same way with the air cleaner. I also don't think that small engine manufacturers would approve of starting fluid in the air intake (I could be wrong; I have not been in business for a long time). I do know, that in the 1970's B&S only approved one additive and that was Sta-Bil; now I think they market their own gas stabilizer. Were you aware that some of the big truck diesel manufactures will now void the warranty if you use starting fluid. I used it years ago but it is all changing now.

You really have to be careful because of civil suits. I would like to tell people to pour a small amount of gas down the throat of their carburetor. But somebody would get burned or burn up their mower. The same with our government's 19,000 fpm blade tip speed. Most of our motors would cut better at fast RPM's. But if any shop adjusted the governor and somebody got hurt or killed; guess who they are coming after. Insurance for any small engines shop is costly.

PS Perhaps it has now changed - but I used to get 5 bad spark plugs out of a new case of 100. Bad new parts can drive mechanics nuts. You think that 'new' means 'good' - not always the case. One other foot note: I never had a bad AC plug; the 5 bad out of 100 came from Champion (perhaps they do a better job now).
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