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Old 06-06-2016, 10:34 AM
 
2,441 posts, read 2,607,659 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luv4horses View Post
Two points. 1, Farmers do have problems with no-till. the main one is insects and a secondary one is run-off.
And yet, it is now the way things are done routinely. A bit of a hint for those of us without advanced degrees in ag science, is it not? And we have the advantage in gardens that we can use things like mulch to reduce surface runoff, and manure rather than mineral fertilisers.

Quote:
2, Microbes are naturally distributed in different zones in the soil, so tilling does help the distribution, especially when the plant debris needs to be broken down.

Like anything, it all depends where you live and where and what you are farming. No one size fits all solution.
Well, the different soils need different treatment to some degree, but there are none which are better when tilled. You could argue that pure beach sand is the least affected, but even that will develop some structure when you add enough organic matter and keep the waves away.
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Old 06-06-2016, 12:32 PM
 
Location: Philaburbia
41,958 posts, read 75,174,114 times
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There's two minutes (because that article wasn't even worth that much) of my life I'll never get back.

No way am I turning over my 15 x 15 garden by hand.
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Old 06-06-2016, 12:45 PM
 
Location: Saint Paul, MN
1,365 posts, read 1,883,814 times
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How exactly does the soil "know" if it has been turned over by man or machine? The end result of tilling and hand-turning is the same: loosening and mixing the soil to a certain depth. I doubt the dirt cares whether you did it by hand.
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Old 06-06-2016, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Heart of Dixie
12,441 posts, read 14,870,119 times
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The article states "...Undisturbed soil gives the best results and makes the best soil for your plants..."

Has anyone tried to plant in solid red clay? It's like putting your plants in a bowl of water.
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Old 06-06-2016, 01:17 PM
 
Location: Mid-Atlantic
32,931 posts, read 36,341,370 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WildColonialGirl View Post
They've known that rototilling is awful for the soil for mre than twenty years.
No, it's not news.
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Old 06-06-2016, 02:51 PM
 
Location: Seattle Area
1,716 posts, read 2,034,792 times
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I hope the farmers don't find out they have been doing it wrong for the last 1000 years.
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Old 06-06-2016, 03:21 PM
 
Location: Richmond VA
6,885 posts, read 7,885,931 times
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IMHO there is a big difference between an article that says "here's why we don't own a tiller" and "You should NOT own a tiller".

Obviously the farmer in the article has his own soil, growing conditions, plans, that are different from those of others. He has years of experience doing things his way. Still, his advice is only worth about 2 cents.
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Old 06-06-2016, 03:24 PM
 
28,115 posts, read 63,659,938 times
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We have 65 acres in the family and when not in production the country REQUIRES tilling or discing... no other option.

It would be nice to if this was not the case but fire suppression trumps all where I live.
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Old 06-06-2016, 03:26 PM
 
2,441 posts, read 2,607,659 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StPaulGal View Post
How exactly does the soil "know" if it has been turned over by man or machine? The end result of tilling and hand-turning is the same: loosening and mixing the soil to a certain depth. I doubt the dirt cares whether you did it by hand.
The machine is much more thorough in breaking up and turning over the soil. A spade still leaves some chunks undisturbed, or even better a fork just loosens it a bit without even turning. The aim is as little distrubance of the soil structure as possible, so the rototiller is the worst of any method.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirt Grinder View Post
The article states "...Undisturbed soil gives the best results and makes the best soil for your plants..."

Has anyone tried to plant in solid red clay? It's like putting your plants in a bowl of water.
You don't plant in solid red clay, you layer a lot of organic matter and then mulch on top (they say up to a foot, although I had decent results with half that, only flowers, not veggies), then wait for the worms to do the mixing for you. Yes, it really does work. I converted an area of lawn which was basically sod over clay you could have made a pot from by piling on compost and manure and mulch. After two years it was soil to the depth of my shovel.
Even if you wanted to dig in the compost a bit the first year, then you leave it.

Last edited by WildColonialGirl; 06-06-2016 at 03:38 PM..
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Old 06-06-2016, 03:28 PM
 
2,441 posts, read 2,607,659 times
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Here is some info on what it means when we talk about soil structure.

Quote:
WHAT IS SOIL STRUCTURE
So now you are up to speed on soil texture and what the individual particles in your soil are.

SOIL STRUCTURE is simply referring to the arrangement of these soil particles into larger aggregates of different sizes and shapes and the pore spaces that are left between them. It is into these spaces that root hairs will grow and extract the water and oxygen from the soil.

Sand Grains Clay
Good soil structure for plant growth is one that has stable aggregates between 0.5 and 2mm in diameter. This results in a good network of soil pores that have good aeration and drainage that allows for rapid exchange of air and water with plant roots.

The processes of root penetration, wetting and drying cycles, freezing and thawing, and animal activity combined with inorganic and organic cementing agents produce soil structure.

In sandy soils, aggregate stability is often difficult to maintain due to low organic matter, low clay content and resistance of sand particles to cementing processes. In clay soils, aggregates may be so large that there is insufficient pore space to allow root hairs to grow between them.

BackWhat is Soil Moisture?
http://mea.com.au/soil-plants-climat...soil-structure
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