U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Covid-19 Information Page
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Garden
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-26-2019, 07:50 PM
Status: "Forsythias have leaves!" (set 8 days ago)
 
Location: Putnam County, TN
857 posts, read 199,171 times
Reputation: 547

Advertisements

This is something I've wondered ever since I've learned how widespread continental "Mediterranean" climates are in Idaho and some parts of eastern Washington state, eastern Oregon and northern Nevada. I also wonder the same thing about Tashkent, Uzbekistan, which has warm enough winters to have the truly subtropical Mediterranean climate but regular hard freezes and snowfall (it's probably about like comparing Oklahoma City, Nashville or Washington D.C. to a typical Humid Subtropical climate).

I could imagine it being incredibly troublesome and precarious having to build new leaves from scratch twice a year and make use of only brief spring/autumn in between. The extreme dryness or repeated hard freezes could also cause severe leaf burn to active trees/shrubs, apart from evergreen trees/shrubs with a hard coating (if you've ever paid attention to conifer needles, Needle palm fronds, Southern magnolia leaves or evergreen holly/rhododendron leaves, you'll probably know what I'm talking about) and certain desert-type plants.

TL;DR: How do deciduous trees adapt to a combination of cold winters and dry summers, or do they have trouble growing in these climate zones at all?

To quote my post from another thread about how far south in the U.S. can deciduous trees grow:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Belt-lover L.A.M. View Post
They can grow in almost all of the country.

Even in southern Florida, the extreme dryness of winter will cause deciduous trees to go dormant. Similarly, the mostly freeze-free (except Eureka northward still getting a few light frosts annually) Californian coast may still have deciduous trees go dormant, but due to the Mediterranean climate and year-round warm weather, it would probably be in summer instead of winter. Texas is in no places quite freeze-free (even though Brownsville is very close), and again, places near the edge of the tropics usually have a winter dry season unless the geography alters their weather patterns considerably.

However, I could imagine them having trouble in parts of Arizona, especially places in southwestern Arizona like Yuma, because conditions that are both warm year-round AND not alternately wet/dry will confuse them, causing them to not fruit, flower or reproduce properly if they can survive at all - quite similar to trying to grow them in the tropical rainforests, except it's always dry rather than always wet.

Although, I've always wondered more what happens to deciduous trees in a Mediterranean climate that freezes hard in winter (e.g. Tashkent, Uzbekistan, which is even less than the 36F winter isotherm the hardiest palms can naturalize in with proper summer conditions) or a continental "Mediterranean" climate like most of the non-arid parts of Idaho.
As always, thanks for taking the time to read and answer!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-26-2019, 10:54 PM
 
Location: SoCal
5,254 posts, read 9,158,535 times
Reputation: 4205
I live on the edge of high desert 90 miles outside of Los Angels, it is a "Mediterranean climate" with dry arid climates, hot in the summer that often reaches over 100 degrees Fahrenheit, but very seldom going over 110. It's cold in the winter that goes below 30 degrees Fahrenheit but due to low humidity it doesn't snow much here. It's fun to see clouds coming over the mountains then disappeared because the arid climates just suck the moisture out of air.

There are plenty of deciduous trees that grow and thrive in this area. I see trees planted along the streets with many losses their leaves in the winter, among them maples and pears tree. I planted crepe myrtle in my front yard, they are deciduous, yet put out a gorgeous bloom in the summer. I have a backyard orchard, the fruit trees dropped all their leaves in the winter, yet grow vigorously in the spring and summer.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2019, 02:56 PM
 
Location: Southwest Washington State
25,366 posts, read 16,332,185 times
Reputation: 37937
One of my adult kids lives in Eastern Oregon. Deciduous tree live fine there. In fact they grow apricots well in that climate. There are not a lot of tall deciduous trees in the wild, but people plant trees and they grow in their lawns and parks just fine.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2019, 03:35 PM
Status: "Forsythias have leaves!" (set 8 days ago)
 
Location: Putnam County, TN
857 posts, read 199,171 times
Reputation: 547
Thanks! How do they deal with the drought though? Do they dry out or even go dormant during summer?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2019, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Out there somewhere...a traveling man.
40,399 posts, read 49,972,276 times
Reputation: 113620
Deciduous trees normally drop foliage and go dormant in the cold winter. Summertime they are actively growing and need to be watered regularly.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2019, 05:59 PM
 
Location: Southwest Washington State
25,366 posts, read 16,332,185 times
Reputation: 37937
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Belt-lover L.A.M. View Post
Thanks! How do they deal with the drought though? Do they dry out or even go dormant during summer?
They water lawn trees.

As far as I know they drop leaves and go dormant in the fall. From my experience living in the lower Middle West, I know that some tree leaves will go yellow in drought, before the foliage color change which signals that the tree is going dormant.

Summer drought is pretty common in much of the US. I know the PNW has drought for about three months every year. We are in the beginning of drought right now. In the Midwest, drought can be months long in the summer, although an occasional thunderstorm can blow up too.

I am sure you can find info online about all of this.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-28-2019, 11:15 PM
Status: "Forsythias have leaves!" (set 8 days ago)
 
Location: Putnam County, TN
857 posts, read 199,171 times
Reputation: 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by silibran View Post
They water lawn trees.
I don't know how dry Idaho and the Pacific Northwest actually get, but apart from places within 100 miles of the coast or at higher elevations, most of the native vegetation I've seen in Google Maps Street View is like that of a steppe or desert, even though the areas mostly get enough winter precipitation to be "Mediterranean" (even if continental, although they aren't closer to the coast and in some low-lying/sheltered locations) rather than arid or semi-arid.

However, if it's the Colorado/Wyoming/New Mexico type of dry, that shouldn't be legal. I don't think even watering grasses should be legal in desert states like those three, as well as Utah, Arizona and Nevada. People need to stop growing water-intensive plants in the desert in summertime. The Colorado River is drying up for a reason, and it must be conserved by opting for species adapted to desert climates in such states.

Now, end of rant. I'm not here to start an off-topic debate. To add onto my question: How many deciduous trees are there in those areas that aren't watered all summer? What happens to them?

P.S.: Yes, you are right. Most of the U.S. experiences drought in late summer/early autumn, but eastern North America (which has humid continental climate in the north and humid subtropical in the south with one small region each of tropical and oceanic) doesn't get the kind of extensive warm-season droughts California and the northwest do.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-29-2019, 02:59 AM
 
Location: British Columbia ~🌄 ☀️ ♥ 🍁 ♥ ☀️🌄~
8,667 posts, read 7,422,500 times
Reputation: 17951
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Belt-lover L.A.M. View Post

..... To add onto my question: How many deciduous trees are there in those areas that aren't watered all summer? What happens to them?

They don't go dormant or stop photosynthesizing in the summer during drought but their growth and production rates do slow right down .... or may even come to a full stop .... until they get rain again. Kind of like going into a state of limbo to conserve energy, but not like winter dormancy when no photosynthesis is happening. Of course if they don't get any water at all for too extended a period of time they will die, no matter what kinds of trees they are or what the temperatures are or what season of year it is.

If you were to look at the tree rings on cross sections of both deciduous and evergreen trees you can tell by the size of the rings what years the trees have had too much, just right, or too little water. Those that have had too little water have smaller rings because they slowed right down or completely stopped growing and producing during the drought.
.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-29-2019, 02:10 PM
 
2,602 posts, read 1,866,968 times
Reputation: 2144
If their roots are deep enough, they tap into the underground water and can survive summer without watering
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-30-2019, 02:50 PM
Status: "Forsythias have leaves!" (set 8 days ago)
 
Location: Putnam County, TN
857 posts, read 199,171 times
Reputation: 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
They don't go dormant or stop photosynthesizing in the summer during drought but their growth and production rates do slow right down .... or may even come to a full stop .... until they get rain again. Kind of like going into a state of limbo to conserve energy, but not like winter dormancy when no photosynthesis is happening. Of course if they don't get any water at all for too extended a period of time they will die, no matter what kinds of trees they are or what the temperatures are or what season of year it is.

If you were to look at the tree rings on cross sections of both deciduous and evergreen trees you can tell by the size of the rings what years the trees have had too much, just right, or too little water. Those that have had too little water have smaller rings because they slowed right down or completely stopped growing and producing during the drought.
.
Thank you for the information! So apparently drought deciduous trees can only exist where winters get, at coldest, a few light frosts?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Garden
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2020, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top