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Old 09-08-2019, 04:17 PM
 
Location: Rochester, WA
6,730 posts, read 3,862,849 times
Reputation: 18355

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I don't feel sorry for sculpted shrubberies... they're obviously very loved.

But I do have a hard time thinning my vegetables. They all look so hopeful. I can never yanka young baby corn plant out of the ground.

Asylums often have lovely gardens.
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Old 09-08-2019, 06:44 PM
 
13,706 posts, read 14,079,004 times
Reputation: 9643
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marie Joseph View Post
People probably think my mom and I are crazy too then because we are both like this as well.

My mom has rescued several plants that were put in the garbage and nursed them back to health. One of them turned out to be a rare species of philodendron that someone had tossed! I also have a variety of rescues bought from stores at reduced prices or found. I feel very sad when I see plants that aren't being cared for properly and yes, I hate to see bushes/trees lopped off at the top. I also get annoyed when people cut down a tree because they simply don't like it for whatever reason.

I remember embarrassing my grandfather when I was around 3 because he had picked some tulips and I started crying. He wanted to know why on earth I was crying about him picking tulips of all things. I don't remember it but I guess I told him that I was sad because the tulips were going to die because he picked them, lol. I was a pretty sensitive kid ::
i love this! what a kind sensitive child you are!

as a single mom i had 3 small sons and was putting my house on the market to sell, and trying to get the yard to look a little better so I pruned a bush in the front yard. not drastically, just so it wasn't blocking the front window. Well my 6 year old son burst into tears for it being cut. it made my heart hurt to see him like this, such a wonderful sensitive child (now a wonderful sensitive young man!). He was very mad at me and did not speak to me for several days. He also went and got a box of band-aids, and proceeded to wrap band-aids on every place that small twigs had been cut. I love that story. I love that boy.
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Old 09-08-2019, 06:50 PM
 
Location: Florida/Tennessee
4,032 posts, read 4,678,206 times
Reputation: 2493
I felt bad when a 200+ year old live Oak got hit by lighting and died. Made tables and a mantle out of it. Oh well... at least it has some kids still growing.
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Old 09-08-2019, 07:14 PM
 
12,795 posts, read 5,128,122 times
Reputation: 31082
Quote:
Originally Posted by UsAll View Post
Are most of the posters here (thus far) operating in life on the premise (the presumption) that plants are sentient life forms that have thinking minds, emotional sensiblities, feelings? Really??????? And you can prove this in a scientific sense to the world of discerning biological and life scientists and to the rest of humanity at-large? Where and how did you get this idea in your heads?????????

Then again, I am open to proofs. I could be wrong. Please provide your proofs of this assertion for all of us to consider.
What we don't know, we don't know, UsAll.

I had a potted rose bush on my deck, because you can't grow roses around here in your yard. The deer will eat the buds as soon as they are about to bloom.

So I had this lovely bush, loved it, the flowers smelled like heaven. It flowered and flowered and was just wonderful. As much as you can love a plant, I loved this one. We went on vacation and the deer jumped up on the deck and ate all the flowers, and the buds. Within a couple weeks, the bush produced massive thorns, and never produced another rosebud. The plant survived, but was only a bramble of thorns.

I'm just sayin'. I don't think we know everything. CERTAINLY, before recently, we had no idea how truly smart octopi are. Or crows. Or even, lobsters. We ignored that they are sentient.
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Old 09-08-2019, 07:50 PM
 
2,537 posts, read 2,556,809 times
Reputation: 3025
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
What we don't know, we don't know, UsAll.

I had a potted rose bush on my deck, because you can't grow roses around here in your yard. The deer will eat the buds as soon as they are about to bloom.

So I had this lovely bush, loved it, the flowers smelled like heaven. It flowered and flowered and was just wonderful. As much as you can love a plant, I loved this one. We went on vacation and the deer jumped up on the deck and ate all the flowers, and the buds. Within a couple weeks, the bush produced massive thorns, and never produced another rosebud. The plant survived, but was only a bramble of thorns.

I'm just sayin'. I don't think we know everything. CERTAINLY, before recently, we had no idea how truly smart octopi are. Or crows. Or even, lobsters. We ignored that they are sentient.

ALL matter (both living matter and non-living matter) can or will respond to stimuli of varied types. This doesn't mean that all matter is a living sentient being. For instance:

(1) If you set a pile of paper (or even a single sheet of paper) on fire, it will respond by curling up darkening, changing color, and disintegrating. This dosn't mean it is a living sentiient being. It is simply responding to outer forces that impact upon it.

(2) If a construction crane crashes a wrecking ball on a chain into a buliding wall, it will crumble that part of the bulding it hit and maybe even part oo all of the building near that will collapse or cave in as a result. This doesn't mean that the building is a living sentiient being. It is simply responding to outer forces that impact upon it.

As per your examples: NO ONE has ever credibly claimed that octopuses nor crows (birds) nor lobsters are not sentient. Of course they are sentient; they are all species of animal (i.e., they think, they make decisions, they feel pain and adversity and try to avoid pain and adversity, et al).

Even a single-celled organism (e.g, a bacteria, a plant cell), responds to stimuli of varied types. But this doesn't make them outright "sentient" in terms of having thinking minds that can have emotions, feelings, affective states, et al. A dictionary definition of "sentient", as looked up on my smartphone, is "able to perceive or feel things (being conscious, aware, responsive, and reactive." But to that, I add "all as an as a result of their thinking mind" . . . not simply responding to outer stimuli like any type of matter (lviing and non-living matter) can or will. For instance, if I bang a hammer hard enough against a glass window, the window will respond by cracking/breaking/shattering. This does not, however, indicate that the glass is sentient but is simply matter responding to an impactful force. As another example, the force of gravity holds our moon in its orbit aroud the earth. This doesn't mean that the moon is a sentient being but just that matter can and does respond to select stimuli (but not always to all other stimuli . . . such as if I yell insults out loud to the moon, even while walking on its surface, it is not going to respond to my voice with anger or hurt feelings nor change its orbit because of my loud and insulting voice). The moon is not a sentient being. And I have my high doubts doubts that a collection of roses or a bush in someone's garden or a vegetable or fruit in my refrigerator or in my salad bowl can be shown to have any of the qualities that establish what we scientifically call "sentience". It appears to be you and others lending a quality to something(s) that it or they simply don't have . . . until and unless science can establish the case to be otherwise, which it hasn't done so thus far up to this point in human history. It is an assertion without any true evidentiary foundation that can be vetted and validated.
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Old 09-08-2019, 07:56 PM
Status: "I believe in reincarnation" (set 14 days ago)
 
Location: Texas
11,911 posts, read 4,584,978 times
Reputation: 23237
Some plants are healthier when pruned.
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Old 09-08-2019, 07:59 PM
 
Location: Florida/Tennessee
4,032 posts, read 4,678,206 times
Reputation: 2493
... and humans are healthier when they get "pruned".
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Old 09-08-2019, 08:06 PM
 
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, originally from SF Bay Area
31,174 posts, read 56,797,470 times
Reputation: 33413
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willamette City View Post
I hate to see Maples with most, if not all the limbs cut off. I'm pretty sure it kills them.
You would be surprised. I have cut back Japanese Maples to just a short trunk and within two years the new growth was full and a nice shape. My neighbor had his native big leaf Maples (50’ tall) topped and all branches cut off, the next spring new shoots popped out and now in the 3rd year they look great, with a nice canopy. Chinese Elm does the same, but many other trees will not.
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Old 09-08-2019, 08:15 PM
 
12,795 posts, read 5,128,122 times
Reputation: 31082
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_n_Tenn View Post
... and humans are healthier when they get "pruned".
No we aren't.

Try cutting fingers and ears off and see how that goes.
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Old 09-08-2019, 08:18 PM
 
12,795 posts, read 5,128,122 times
Reputation: 31082
Quote:
Originally Posted by UsAll View Post
ALL matter (both living matter and non-living matter) can or will respond to stimuli of varied types. This doesn't mean that all matter is a living sentient being. For instance:

(1) If you set a pile of paper (or even a single sheet of paper) on fire, it will respond by curling up darkening, changing color, and disintegrating. This dosn't mean it is a living sentiient being. It is simply responding to outer forces that impact upon it.

(2) If a construction crane crashes a wrecking ball on a chain into a buliding wall, it will crumble that part of the bulding it hit and maybe even part oo all of the building near that will collapse or cave in as a result. This doesn't mean that the building is a living sentiient being. It is simply responding to outer forces that impact upon it.

As per your examples: NO ONE has ever credibly claimed that octopuses nor crows (birds) nor lobsters are not sentient. Of course they are sentient; they are all species of animal (i.e., they think, they make decisions, they feel pain and adversity and try to avoid pain and adversity, et al).

Even a single-celled organism (e.g, a bacteria, a plant cell), responds to stimuli of varied types. But this doesn't make them outright "sentient" in terms of having thinking minds that can have emotions, feelings, affective states, et al. A dictionary definition of "sentient", as looked up on my smartphone, is "able to perceive or feel things (being conscious, aware, responsive, and reactive." But to that, I add "all as an as a result of their thinking mind" . . . not simply responding to outer stimuli like any type of matter (lviing and non-living matter) can or will. For instance, if I bang a hammer hard enough against a glass window, the window will respond by cracking/breaking/shattering. This does not, however, indicate that the glass is sentient but is simply matter responding to an impactful force. As another example, the force of gravity holds our moon in its orbit aroud the earth. This doesn't mean that the moon is a sentient being but just that matter can and does respond to select stimuli (but not always to all other stimuli . . . such as if I yell insults out loud to the moon, even while walking on its surface, it is not going to respond to my voice with anger or hurt feelings nor change its orbit because of my loud and insulting voice). The moon is not a sentient being. And I have my high doubts doubts that a collection of roses or a bush in someone's garden or a vegetable or fruit in my refrigerator or in my salad bowl can be shown to have any of the qualities that establish what we scientifically call "sentience". It appears to be you and others lending a quality to something(s) that it or they simply don't have . . . until and unless science can establish the case to be otherwise, which it hasn't done so thus far up to this point in human history. It is an assertion without any true evidentiary foundation that can be vetted and validated.
*shrugs* I don't know.

What I DO know, is that beings are clearly sentient that humans have denied are sentient.
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