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Old 01-30-2020, 10:19 PM
Status: "Subtropical climates don't necessarily have 12 warm months." (set 8 days ago)
 
Location: Putnam County, TN
649 posts, read 146,511 times
Reputation: 426

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For example, people say they won't grow palms in Tennessee, in some cases "because they're not native," even though at least places like Memphis and Chattanooga are physically close to their native range. They are across a state line, yes, but they're physically closer to it than they are to, say, Oklahoma City that doesn't have to cross a state line to get to wild Dwarf Palmettos. Memphis is even WAY closer to having native Dwarf Palmetto than Great Rhododendron.

Not to mention some of these same Tennesseans grow Southern Magnolia, even though they're no closer to us, and introduce Asian species like Crepemyrtle and Japanese Banana like it's nothing.

Do political boundaries really matter so much when determining how "native" a species is? Shouldn't it be judged by physical proximity and climatic suitability rather than political boundaries? Besides, I've noticed several of the people claiming this seem to have contradictory double standards, and even many others can't see the fact that they're basing "natural" decisions off of man-made boundaries or else just don't care.
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Old 01-31-2020, 08:12 AM
 
Location: Boydton, VA
2,662 posts, read 3,359,057 times
Reputation: 5035
I don't see any USDA climate zones that mirror state (political boundry lines.....it's called a "hardiness" map for a reason. There is no reason that specie or variety cannot be planted outside it's listed hardiness zone, just go into the venture as an experiment.

USDA Plant Hardiness map.

Regards
Gemstone1
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Old 01-31-2020, 10:04 AM
 
Location: North Idaho
23,932 posts, read 30,829,198 times
Reputation: 47835
"Native" means naturally occurring. A plant is either native or it is not. It really has nothing to do with whether or not a plant will grow there.


If you want a super clear example, pythons are not "native" to Florida, yet they thrive there. No problem with growing pythons, but that doesn't make them native.
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Old 01-31-2020, 10:19 AM
 
Location: Old Hippie Heaven
20,269 posts, read 9,100,548 times
Reputation: 12157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Belt-lover L.A.M. View Post
For example, people say they won't grow palms in Tennessee, in some cases "because they're not native," even though at least places like Memphis and Chattanooga are physically close to their native range. They are across a state line, yes, but they're physically closer to it than they are to, say, Oklahoma City that doesn't have to cross a state line to get to wild Dwarf Palmettos. Memphis is even WAY closer to having native Dwarf Palmetto than Great Rhododendron.

Not to mention some of these same Tennesseans grow Southern Magnolia, even though they're no closer to us, and introduce Asian species like Crepemyrtle and Japanese Banana like it's nothing.

Do political boundaries really matter so much when determining how "native" a species is? Shouldn't it be judged by physical proximity and climatic suitability rather than political boundaries? Besides, I've noticed several of the people claiming this seem to have contradictory double standards, and even many others can't see the fact that they're basing "natural" decisions off of man-made boundaries or else just don't care.
Political boundaries don't matter at all to plants (or animals).

Political boundaries matter to humans when humans are 1) describing where a plant/animal was found before human intervention and/or 2) regulating/protecting a particular plant or animal.

As you note, where a plant/animal is found has everything to do with habitat. And plants/animals will grow wherever the habitat is suitable, even when the new habitat is oceans away from their original/native habitat. In fact, often they'll do better in the new habitat, due to lack of predators/diseases which are also found in their original/native habitat.

"Before human intervention" is an interesting standard, because people have been carting certain plants/animals around since about forever. For instance, it took quite a bit of modern research to determine the original/native regions for wheat and maize.

Last edited by jacqueg; 01-31-2020 at 10:34 AM..
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Old 02-01-2020, 04:59 PM
 
Location: Laurentia
3,198 posts, read 1,493,865 times
Reputation: 7510
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Belt-lover L.A.M. View Post
For example, people say they won't grow palms in Tennessee, in some cases "because they're not native," even though at least places like Memphis and Chattanooga are physically close to their native range. They are across a state line, yes, but they're physically closer to it than they are to, say, Oklahoma City that doesn't have to cross a state line to get to wild Dwarf Palmettos. Memphis is even WAY closer to having native Dwarf Palmetto than Great Rhododendron.

Not to mention some of these same Tennesseans grow Southern Magnolia, even though they're no closer to us, and introduce Asian species like Crepemyrtle and Japanese Banana like it's nothing.

Do political boundaries really matter so much when determining how "native" a species is? Shouldn't it be judged by physical proximity and climatic suitability rather than political boundaries? Besides, I've noticed several of the people claiming this seem to have contradictory double standards, and even many others can't see the fact that they're basing "natural" decisions off of man-made boundaries or else just don't care.
I noticed that when I lived in Tennessee and found it odd the lack of palms because the climate seemed agreeable to at least the hardier palms such as windmill or dwarf palmetto.

It might be more of a preference rather than a political boundary issue as to why there are so few palms in Tennessee. Palms/Palmettos are traditionally associated with places like South Carolina or Florida so maybe it is just the people in TN don't feel the association with that?

It is funny how people think on these things.

PA is losing a lot of its hemlocks to wooly aeglid and rather than planting Northeast-native Eastern white pine, a lot of people here are turning to Norway spruce which is definitely not a native species. I'm not complaining about it since it is a beautiful species and very resistant to wooly aeglid but I hear from some of the people planting it that they don't want to plant something like the white pine or Colorado blue spruce (at least native to U.S.) because they aren't native to PA.

When I understand it I'll let you know
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Old Today, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Southwest Washington State
24,758 posts, read 15,953,457 times
Reputation: 36684
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marie Joseph View Post
I noticed that when I lived in Tennessee and found it odd the lack of palms because the climate seemed agreeable to at least the hardier palms such as windmill or dwarf palmetto.

It might be more of a preference rather than a political boundary issue as to why there are so few palms in Tennessee. Palms/Palmettos are traditionally associated with places like South Carolina or Florida so maybe it is just the people in TN don't feel the association with that?

It is funny how people think on these things.

PA is losing a lot of its hemlocks to wooly aeglid and rather than planting Northeast-native Eastern white pine, a lot of people here are turning to Norway spruce which is definitely not a native species. I'm not complaining about it since it is a beautiful species and very resistant to wooly aeglid but I hear from some of the people planting it that they don't want to plant something like the white pine or Colorado blue spruce (at least native to U.S.) because they aren't native to PA.

When I understand it I'll let you know
Possibly they have seen the Norway spruce around town, and are more familiar with it. Sorry about the loss of your hemlocks.
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