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Old 02-09-2020, 11:09 PM
Status: "Subtropical climates don't necessarily have 12 warm months." (set 17 days ago)
 
Location: Putnam County, TN
690 posts, read 155,338 times
Reputation: 448

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After an unforgiving struggle to establish multiple American Holly cuttings (likely due to accidental overwatering), I've decided it's better to go for something more flood tolerant until I get a job at a nursery and learn properly. Mom is terrible at rooting cuttings for ANYTHING she's ever tried (which even she comfortably admits, unlike many of her other flaws), so I couldn't learn from her.

However, I do plan to have both River Birch and Needle Palm available at my nursery once I open it, I know both are very flood tolerant, and I have both readily available without even having to walk into the woods. I'm just not sure which to do first due to not knowing which one is more flood tolerant. Both frequently grow in extremely wet environments in the wild; River Birch grows along streambeds that can wash out and are very volatile, while Needle Palm grows in swamps that tend to have standing water for weeks or even months out of every year.

Any advice? Thanks!

P.S.: I do plan to keep both outdoors during December and January, as well as the palm cutting(s) anytime the outdoor temperature is likely to be higher than indoor, as they'd still need to acclimate. And bury the pots in the soil for winter and ensure no ceramic pots, as roots are more sensitive. But I'd still most likely keep them in during spring/late autumn to give them a head start on their growth and make monitoring them more convenient at times.
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Old 02-10-2020, 06:26 AM
 
Location: Boydton, VA
2,682 posts, read 3,371,077 times
Reputation: 5060
Needle Palm vs River Birch....what will you find growing in a natural habitat in your area ? I suspect River Birch, which would be my choice for wet areas in your locale....However, if you are looking for the evergreen look...you could go with the cold/water hardy palm. I've planted hundreds of River Birch, with 100% success.

Regards
Gemstone1
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Old 02-10-2020, 07:15 PM
Status: "Subtropical climates don't necessarily have 12 warm months." (set 17 days ago)
 
Location: Putnam County, TN
690 posts, read 155,338 times
Reputation: 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by gemstone1 View Post
Needle Palm vs River Birch....what will you find growing in a natural habitat in your area ? I suspect River Birch, which would be my choice for wet areas in your locale....However, if you are looking for the evergreen look...you could go with the cold/water hardy palm. I've planted hundreds of River Birch, with 100% success.

Regards
Gemstone1
Neither grow in the wild in my county, but both are well-suited for my climate and native to somewhere in the subtropical southeastern U.S. Thanks!
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Old Yesterday, 05:53 AM
 
Location: Boydton, VA
2,682 posts, read 3,371,077 times
Reputation: 5060
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Belt-lover L.A.M. View Post
Neither grow in the wild in my county, but both are well-suited for my climate and native to somewhere in the subtropical southeastern U.S. Thanks!
The hundreds of River Birch I planted on my So IN farm were no where near a sub-tropical climate zone, yet in 20 years they went from 1' twigs to over 60' tall....they had plenty of sun and moisture. They are somewhat shade intolerant, as evidenced by 2 of my recent plantings....those in partial shade are 2/3 the size of those in full sun. They appear to be a native specie in 50% of the country. USDA Map.

Regards
Gemstone1
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Old Yesterday, 09:48 PM
Status: "Subtropical climates don't necessarily have 12 warm months." (set 17 days ago)
 
Location: Putnam County, TN
690 posts, read 155,338 times
Reputation: 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by gemstone1 View Post
The hundreds of River Birch I planted on my So IN farm were no where near a sub-tropical climate zone, yet in 20 years they went from 1' twigs to over 60' tall....they had plenty of sun and moisture. They are somewhat shade intolerant, as evidenced by 2 of my recent plantings....those in partial shade are 2/3 the size of those in full sun. They appear to be a native specie in 50% of the country. USDA Map.

Regards
Gemstone1
I didn't say they were exclusively a subtropical plant; only that they're widely present in some parts of the subtropical southeast.

Also, yes, you are right state-wise. But I live in Putnam County, TN, and it shows them being absent in the wild in my county as I've said (although they're present in my state).
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Old Today, 07:59 AM
 
Location: Floribama
15,783 posts, read 32,722,576 times
Reputation: 15011
My favorite tree for wet areas is Gordonia lasianthus (Loblolly Bay). Very easy to grow and propagate, and I have no idea why they're not more common. Mine even survive droughts well with no watering. Another one is Sweetbay magnolia.


As far as American Holly, I really doubt cuttings would be successful, although I have air layered a few.

(I don't know why my pic is sideways)
Attached Thumbnails
Is Needle Palm more flood tolerant than River Birch, or is it the other way around?-29a00655-eeb0-4f46-b63a-3311bcda2373.jpeg  
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Old Today, 10:33 PM
Status: "Subtropical climates don't necessarily have 12 warm months." (set 17 days ago)
 
Location: Putnam County, TN
690 posts, read 155,338 times
Reputation: 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by southernnaturelover View Post
My favorite tree for wet areas is Gordonia lasianthus (Loblolly Bay). Very easy to grow and propagate, and I have no idea why they're not more common. Mine even survive droughts well with no watering. Another one is Sweetbay magnolia.


As far as American Holly, I really doubt cuttings would be successful, although I have air layered a few.

(I don't know why my pic is sideways)
I've never heard of Loblolly Bay. That sounds interesting, but it says Zone 7 to 9, and I'm in Zone 7a and have seen people struggle with Chinese Windmill and European Fan Palms (two other supposedly Zone 7 plants, the latter of which even prefers hot summers). Although Southern Magnolia and Needle Palm do far better here, they're generally listed as Zone 6 (6a or 6b depends on who you ask), and we have much milder winter averages than many places in 7a. But I'll make a separate thread about that.

I'm not sure how Sweetbay Magnolia would behave in Zone 7a winters. I know they're semi-evergreen in 7b and tardily deciduous in 6a and parts of 6b, but I've not seen people growing them around here nor heard reliable info about places right on the verge.

Also, if not by cutting, then what is the best way to reproduce American Holly without harvesting directly from the wild?
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