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Old 02-15-2011, 01:05 PM
 
Location: DC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calipoppy View Post
....that you are aware of.
Or admits on a public forum......
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Old 02-16-2011, 05:46 AM
 
Location: North Carolina
2,657 posts, read 7,671,873 times
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Originally Posted by schmidty223
Well, My great grandfather owned 300 slaves. I'm not related to any africans though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by calipoppy View Post
....that you are aware of.
Would anyone under the age of ... oh, 40 ... care?

It's a family mystery of why my late paternal grandmother was so ... umm .. "dark". A persistent rumor has been that we have A-A blood on that side of the family. She was born in 1912 so the whole thing has been hushed up. While the next generation (my parents) refuse to talk about the subject, my generation (between age 40-53) have an "ohhh, c'mon" attitude about it. It's not like we can siphon that mix from our bloodline; most of us would really like to know. I've lately come across information that Grandma might have been descended from Melungeon stock, but I guess the only thing that will solve the issue is a DNA test. I've been trying to get my lazy brother to take one, but I'm going to have to pony up the cost first.
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Old 02-16-2011, 06:07 AM
 
7,102 posts, read 26,107,472 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STLCardsBlues1989 View Post
Just curious, but the will of my relative did mention some partial names for some of the slaves. It's really a long shot, but is there any way to research them?

Would they show up in a census?
There werr also Slave Schedules, which where taken like the regular census. You might be able to find them wherever you fins your regular census recordsl

My family had always thought that we never owned slaves, even though we were in a slave owning section. I found one schedule that we did own a 13 year old kitchen slave. Since my g-grandfather had over 20 children by two differnt wives, I think kitchen help was imposible without some help. And, in those days, slaves were always there. On another schedule, he had a young (I forget the age) boy listed as a "man servant" while she had another young girl in the kitchen.

These schedules cover the same area as the regular census, but the ones I saw were taken at different times. They list the owner, the name of the slave (usually only one) sex, age and position...that is, field, house or whatever. In our area, slaves also worked at the port.
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Old 02-16-2011, 06:38 AM
 
Location: Hialeah
809 posts, read 2,189,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STLCardsBlues1989 View Post
I was looking at the will of a brother of my direct ancestor. He was born in 1816 in Tennessee and died in 1867. His will was dated 1860. You can find it here:
RootsWeb's WorldConnect Project: Moss * Ivy * Gordon * Brand/Brann Families

One part that really struck me was this:


I'm not necessarily ashamed that my ancestors were (or likely were) slave owners. I'm not necessarily proud of it, either. But that's how genealogy goes. Some ancestors were people we would be proud of and some were not. Still, it amazes me to think of how different that life was. I couldn't imagine owning somebody. If I lived back then, even though I am white, there's a good chance I would be property of my husband. It's hard to imagine a world like that.

Sometimes I look back at situations like the fight against slavery and I wonder if I would have been an abolitionist. I know that sounds like a horrible thing to say, but I'm not really a confrontational type. I'm more the type to wait for things to change. It took a lot of guts to speak out against slavery back then, and I wonder if many of us, if our lives and even our families were threatened, would have spoken out against it. Would most of us have made the heroic choice, even at our own peril?

Anyway, I found this will and it surprised me. I had assumed that I had ancestors who owned slaves. Granted, this is a brother of my ancestor, but it was in the family and I had plenty of other ancestors in Virginia, Maryland, Kentucky, and Tennessee. I think, by the time my ancestors came to Missouri (some as early as the 18teens and others around the Civil War), most of them did not have slaves any more, either because they could not afford it or chose not to. Some of my ancestors were Confederate and some (even the ones from Tennessee) were Union.

It's really interesting to dig into this history and see how our ancestors lived. Knowing the atrocities of slavery, I don't think I could have tolerated owning a slave. However, considering my own cautious attitude I'm honestly not sure if I would have fought it. Fortunately, I don't have to make that decision.

Do any of you have ancestors (slaves or slave owners) in your genealogy? Did it surprise you? Shock you? Did it make you feel anything? For me, it's an interesting tidbit. I'm not so much ashamed because I didn't do it, but it does make me want to wonder about that time and what it was like, especially for slaves but also for regular people. I'm sure many more people during that day, even those who owned or whose relatives owned slaves, struggled with it. Although he lived almost a century before, Thomas Jefferson himself struggled with it.

It's really interesting to read up on. I'm certainly glad I live now and not then.

Thoughts?
It's nice to see your ancestor didn't want to divide the families. Slavery was bad enough. Sometimes I think slave owners made it a point to divide families as a show of contempt and power, not as a business or financial move.

Last edited by gymbuff; 02-16-2011 at 07:02 AM..
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Old 02-16-2011, 06:59 AM
 
Location: DC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverwing View Post
Originally Posted by schmidty223
Well, My great grandfather owned 300 slaves. I'm not related to any africans though.



Would anyone under the age of ... oh, 40 ... care?

It's a family mystery of why my late paternal grandmother was so ... umm .. "dark". A persistent rumor has been that we have A-A blood on that side of the family. She was born in 1912 so the whole thing has been hushed up. While the next generation (my parents) refuse to talk about the subject, my generation (between age 40-53) have an "ohhh, c'mon" attitude about it. It's not like we can siphon that mix from our bloodline; most of us would really like to know. I've lately come across information that Grandma might have been descended from Melungeon stock, but I guess the only thing that will solve the issue is a DNA test. I've been trying to get my lazy brother to take one, but I'm going to have to pony up the cost first.
You're brother getting a Y chromosome DNA test won't tell you anything about any grandmother in your family tree. If this is your maternal grandmother a mitochondrial DNA test might tell you something.
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Old 02-16-2011, 09:20 AM
 
Location: Southeast Missouri
5,812 posts, read 17,871,150 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Padgett2 View Post
There werr also Slave Schedules, which where taken like the regular census. You might be able to find them wherever you fins your regular census recordsl

My family had always thought that we never owned slaves, even though we were in a slave owning section. I found one schedule that we did own a 13 year old kitchen slave. Since my g-grandfather had over 20 children by two differnt wives, I think kitchen help was imposible without some help. And, in those days, slaves were always there. On another schedule, he had a young (I forget the age) boy listed as a "man servant" while she had another young girl in the kitchen.

These schedules cover the same area as the regular census, but the ones I saw were taken at different times. They list the owner, the name of the slave (usually only one) sex, age and position...that is, field, house or whatever. In our area, slaves also worked at the port.
I've looked into that but I'm not sure if there is one. He lived in Arkansas in 1850 and that census showed that he owned 3 slaves, but it mentioned nothing about the slaves. In 1860 he lived in Tennessee, and I don't think that county has a slave census (or schedule) that year. They had had one in 1850, but he had moved to Arkansas for the 1850 census.

He had three slaves mentioned by name in his will, Nelson and Sharlot (who I suspect were young and not part of other slave families there) and Sivy (with all of her children). I haven't found much on them yet.
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Old 02-16-2011, 09:44 AM
 
460 posts, read 930,424 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STLCardsBlues1989 View Post
I've looked into that but I'm not sure if there is one. He lived in Arkansas in 1850 and that census showed that he owned 3 slaves, but it mentioned nothing about the slaves. In 1860 he lived in Tennessee, and I don't think that county has a slave census (or schedule) that year. They had had one in 1850, but he had moved to Arkansas for the 1850 census.

He had three slaves mentioned by name in his will, Nelson and Sharlot (who I suspect were young and not part of other slave families there) and Sivy (with all of her children). I haven't found much on them yet.
Have you checked this site? There are some links for Arkansas and Tennessee slave schedules on there.

Eleanor's Links: Links to African American Genealogy and History on the Internet!

.
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Old 02-16-2011, 10:43 AM
 
Location: DC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STLCardsBlues1989 View Post
I've looked into that but I'm not sure if there is one. He lived in Arkansas in 1850 and that census showed that he owned 3 slaves, but it mentioned nothing about the slaves. In 1860 he lived in Tennessee, and I don't think that county has a slave census (or schedule) that year. They had had one in 1850, but he had moved to Arkansas for the 1850 census.

He had three slaves mentioned by name in his will, Nelson and Sharlot (who I suspect were young and not part of other slave families there) and Sivy (with all of her children). I haven't found much on them yet.
There is a Federal Slave Census for 1860. If your relative had slaves they should have been enumerated.
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Old 02-16-2011, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Southeast Missouri
5,812 posts, read 17,871,150 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muonic View Post
Have you checked this site? There are some links for Arkansas and Tennessee slave schedules on there.

Eleanor's Links: Links to African American Genealogy and History on the Internet!

.
I searched, but didn't find anything. The nearest I found a Thomas Ivy in Lafayette County, Arkansas. He had 61 slaves. None of the people on my Ivy family tree were in the right area, the right age, or the right name. Besides, by 1860 Colbert was back in Tennessee and I didn't find his county there. I also searched the index and there were quite a few Ivys, but not mine. They might be related, though.

I'll keep looking on some of the other sites. It may be more difficult because it appears that my relative had fewer slaves, so there may not be as many people who have researched him in particular.

Ivy, C.B. (dec'd) - Ozark, Probate Book B, pg #354, ref. #15c, Record of court proceedings, 7 Oct 1869 - 7 Oct 1869; McCubbin, James B. (admin'r/exec'r); [Columbus Walker claim filed]

McCubbin, James B. (admin'r/exec'r) - Ozark, Probate Book B, pg #354, ref. #15c, Record of court proceedings, 7 Oct 1869 - 7 Oct 1869; Ivy, C.B. (dec'd); [Columbus Walker claim filed]

Walker, Columbus (other name) - Ozark, Probate Book B, pg #354, ref. #15c, Record of court proceedings, 7 Oct 1869 - 7 Oct 1869; Ivy, C.B. (dec'd); McCubbin, James B. (admin'r/exec'r); [Columbus Walker claim filed]
Probates by Linda Holman

He willed some of his slaves (in his 1860 will) to his daughter in Franklin county. Of course, by his death in 1867 the slaves had been freed. I wonder if this issue had anything to do with his will. I'm not sure who James B. McCubbin is, unless it's his son-in-law. There's also a Columbus Walker mentioned. I can't find any Gertrude (C.B.'s daughter) McCubbin on FamilySearch. As of 1860 she was still single. Her maiden name was Adrain (she was adopted, so she was not an Ivy officially, even on the census). Those probate records show no mention of Gertrude. Of course, she was a woman so she had not as many rights in court.

Further confusing matters is that C.B. lived in Grainger county, Tennessee. At some point part of Grainger county became Hamblen county, so I'm not sure which county records it would actually be in. I don't think I've yet found C.B.'s 1860 census. I did with his daughter, but she lived in Franklin, Arkansas. I can't look at her census on FamilySearch, but I'll check out GenWeb. Searching on Family Search just gives me CB's 1850 census in Franklin, Arkansas.

Hamblen county has an Ivey Cemetery, but they don't appear to be my relatives.

There's also a C.B. Ivy born 1835 and be lived in McNairy, TN, but I find no confirmation of any relation there.

I'll keep looking at records, but so far nothing has really jumped out at me.
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Old 02-16-2011, 12:21 PM
 
Location: Southeast Missouri
5,812 posts, read 17,871,150 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
There is a Federal Slave Census for 1860. If your relative had slaves they should have been enumerated.
I searched on Ancestry. I don't have a subscription, but some things you can look at.

This did jump out at me:
23 Female Black Birdwell Ivy info, Grainger, Tennessee
22 Male Black Birdwell Ivy info, Grainger, Tennessee
18 Female Black Birdwell Ivy info, Grainger, Tennessee

C.B. had a cousin born 1830 named Patrick Birdwell Ivey. C.B.'s first cousin John Ivey also had a son born 1849 named Patrick Birdwell Ivey. There's probably a connection. 30-year-old Birdwell lived in Grainger, TN with his wife Susan and his mother in 1860.

Another Ivy slaveholder in Grainger, TN was S.W. Ivy. I'm not sure of the connection.

I can't find any Ivy slaveholders in Franklin, AR, nor can I find C.B.

Birdwell Ivy is found in the 1880 census in Hamblen county, TN, though in 1860 he's still in Grainger, TN. In 1850 he's in Grainger, TN (named Patrick B.). 1860 he is in Grainger, TN and 1880 in Hamblen, TN (each time as Birdwell, with his wife, Susan, there as well. I'm not sure where he was in 1870.

I was careful to make sure the age was correct, because Birdwell Ivy had a cousin named Patrick Birdwell Ivey in Hamblen county and he was born in 1849.
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