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Old 06-24-2014, 08:24 AM
 
3,806 posts, read 5,644,248 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Blood View Post
For most people they found out they are Native American by looking in the mirror and seeing a Native American looking phenotype.

What's next are you going you going to ask "How did you find out you are Black ?".
Seems like a reverse of the situation in The Jerk.
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Old 06-24-2014, 08:32 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaparrito View Post
If you are 1/364th African, descended from a slave generations ago, but were raised and look caucasian, do you suddenly start thinking of yourself as black when you find out about that ancestor? Why not? I'll tell you why not, because it's absurd. Yet anyone with a native american ancestor, no matter how far removed, seems to feel some sort of "affinity", "spiritual connection" or something. What nonsense.
To go from generic American white guy to generic American black guy or vice versa isn't a big deal. The culture is the same generic one with a relative history. It's a bit like being a boat moored to small desert island. It doesn't really matter if you're on the east or west side.

If you can go from generic nothingness to being able to lay claim to some old or traditional culture be it American Indian, European, African, or what have you, then suddenly you're not someone alone drifting unconnected to history and the world but part of a real culture. I'd love to be able to say I was something instead of being nothing, and I think that drives these folks to.
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Old 06-24-2014, 10:28 AM
 
Location: San Francisco, California
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if you have to wonder and make guesses? your not a NA
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Old 06-27-2014, 09:36 AM
 
306 posts, read 587,890 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IllyBidol View Post
I beg to differ. Jay Tavare is a wannabe. His real name is Nader Janani, he is Persian and not Native American. He was born in Tehran, Iran and his family left the country before the Islamic Revolution. He went to a British boarding school and his family lives in Sweden and the U.K. His sister´s name is Negar Janani.

A racially "Indian" -as you describe it- is Yvette Melanson who is Navajo and was raised by a Jewish couple.
Thank you for for that information I was not aware. His story was supposedly he was adopted, and was of White Mountain Apache, some Latin in the mix. Bottom line if this is the truth....he is now a fraud. Any rewards he won posing as American Indian should be revoked. He played American Indian rolls.
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Old 06-27-2014, 11:15 AM
 
Location: Østenfor sol og vestenfor måne
17,731 posts, read 21,014,477 times
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There is a difference between being a Native American and having a Native American ancestor.

A lot of Americans have a Polish great-grandparent, but that doesn't make them Polish even if they eat pierogies.

I have a good friend who is half-Navajo, half-Anglo-American. He looks pretty darn Navajo, but since he is only half (and his mother even still lives on the rez), and he grew up in Ohio, he has trouble gaining full acceptence from Navajos here in New Mexico. Not because of his half bloodedness, but because he wasn't raised in a Navajo community. He is even considered bilagaana* by some Navajos.

*bilagaana basically means White, so in this case it appears that some Navajos employ the one-drop rule.
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Old 06-28-2014, 09:21 PM
 
306 posts, read 587,890 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IllyBidol View Post
I beg to differ. Jay Tavare is a wannabe. His real name is Nader Janani, he is Persian and not Native American. He was born in Tehran, Iran and his family left the country before the Islamic Revolution. He went to a British boarding school and his family lives in Sweden and the U.K. His sister´s name is Negar Janani.

A racially "Indian" -as you describe it- is Yvette Melanson who is Navajo and was raised by a Jewish couple.
Unfortunately, I am unable to find a credible source to support Jay is Persian. I tried googling and the returns are blogs, which are not considered trustworthy since they are formed opinions and not supported by any credible documentation (I.e. comments from the Navajo Nation). From the blogs I've seen, I wouldn't trust them at all. Seems to be surrounded by some few strange women who claimed to have slept with the man. I know he is involved with native American issues, is very open about his heritage and I have never heard Indian Country making an issue.

I cannot find anything for the claims you are making. If you could please forward me the links I'd appreciate it. Preferrably not blogs.Thanks

Last edited by AppalachianGumbo; 06-28-2014 at 09:32 PM..
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Old 07-01-2014, 07:04 AM
 
2 posts, read 6,759 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AppalachianGumbo View Post
Unfortunately, I am unable to find a credible source to support Jay is Persian. I tried googling and the returns are blogs, which are not considered trustworthy since they are formed opinions and not supported by any credible documentation (I.e. comments from the Navajo Nation). From the blogs I've seen, I wouldn't trust them at all. Seems to be surrounded by some few strange women who claimed to have slept with the man. I know he is involved with native American issues, is very open about his heritage and I have never heard Indian Country making an issue.

I cannot find anything for the claims you are making. If you could please forward me the links I'd appreciate it. Preferrably not blogs.Thanks
You are right. It is very difficult to obtain credible sources. I do not have his Iranian birth certificate.

But why can every Tom, Dick and Harry in the US claim to be Native American? Don´t these people have to prove their claims? So, for example, could I colour my hair black, camouflage my freckles and claim to be e.g of Oglala heritage without having to prove it?

Jay Tavare is not open about his heritage. He cannot name his clans (White Mountain Apache, Navajo). When he was asked, he said "Deer clan" which is in fact Hopi. So he lied. Furthermore he is not enrolled in one of the tribes he mentioned and when you call the reservations nobody ever heard of his families. Very strange considering the big Native American families. He lied about his age as well, not uncommon for actors, but the stretch between 1958 and 1976 is a bit too far.

Jay Tavare claims that he was adopted by Italians. How realistic is it that Italians would travel all the way to the US (in the early sixties considering his real birth year is around 1964) to adopt a child directly from the Navajo reservation? Highly unlikely. Then these alleged Italian adoptive parents send him away to a British boading school at an early age? A very strange story.

He does not even speak or write proper British or American English despite having lived in these countries for more than three decades. He speaks English with a Farsi accent.

But you are probably right Indian Country never made an issue because he is not a well-known actor and as a result Native Americans couldn´t care less if he is Native American or Iranian.
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Old 07-02-2014, 02:51 PM
 
306 posts, read 587,890 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IllyBidol View Post
You are right. It is very difficult to obtain credible sources. I do not have his Iranian birth certificate.

But why can every Tom, Dick and Harry in the US claim to be Native American? Don´t these people have to prove their claims? So, for example, could I colour my hair black, camouflage my freckles and claim to be e.g of Oglala heritage without having to prove it?

Jay Tavare is not open about his heritage. He cannot name his clans (White Mountain Apache, Navajo). When he was asked, he said "Deer clan" which is in fact Hopi. So he lied. Furthermore he is not enrolled in one of the tribes he mentioned and when you call the reservations nobody ever heard of his families. Very strange considering the big Native American families. He lied about his age as well, not uncommon for actors, but the stretch between 1958 and 1976 is a bit too far.

Jay Tavare claims that he was adopted by Italians. How realistic is it that Italians would travel all the way to the US (in the early sixties considering his real birth year is around 1964) to adopt a child directly from the Navajo reservation? Highly unlikely. Then these alleged Italian adoptive parents send him away to a British boading school at an early age? A very strange story.

He does not even speak or write proper British or American English despite having lived in these countries for more than three decades. He speaks English with a Farsi accent.

But you are probably right Indian Country never made an issue because he is not a well-known actor and as a result Native Americans couldn´t care less if he is Native American or Iranian.
I agree with you. No argument there. Unfortunately, most people making claims of Native American ancestry aren't taking leading rolls in films getting seen as an "Indian Actor." I remember him in the series 'Into The West", with Keri Russle. Whether he is famous or not, he claiming "heritage" that is not his, this is stealing from the Navajo/Apache people for profit. If his is being dishonest about his origins.
His place of birth says "Born in a Navajo Reservation." Anyone could be born there, is he a tribal member...That is pivitol. The Navajo Nation is one of the largest tribes, surely, someone may know him unless Jay Tavare is a stage name. They should know his face, "That's my cuz."
If he is enrolled with the Navajo Nation or the Apache at the Jicarilla for example, they should have his lineage on file, however he is not claiming a tribe or as you said his Clan. He seems to say, "Apache Navajo mix." It is interesting, because he should be enrolled with one of them, if he meets their Blood Quanta, unless as you brought up, it is very strange unless he was adopted.

I think I'm going to delve more into this. You had my curiosity, now my full attention. All NDN's care if people are parading around as a "pretendian."
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Old 08-08-2014, 06:31 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIMBAM View Post
If you're finding out you're Taino it's certainly via the Carribean. I'm sorry to tell you, but the Taino culture was obliterated when the Spanish brutally enslaved the whole population and through disease. Their decendents are Cubans and Peurto Ricans, but there's no full blooded Taino left and the culture and language disappeared centuries ago, preserved only in written accounts and through archaeology. There still exist tribes that were related to the Taino, however, as they were related to the Arawak peoples, many tribes of whom still survive in South America. If you want to find out about related peoples, lookup the Arawaks. They are not Taino, but they are close, in the way the Polish are not the Slovaks, but they aren't so different when compared to Somali.
Actually after Columbus opened up the west many Tainos were killed but not completely obliterate. There where Tainos that hid out in the mountains, Taino women where sold to spanish men, and Taino men where sold into slavery. Also studies have shown that 61% of Puerto Ricans have Taino DNA which to some means Tainos are very much still around, the food, language, and culture is still embraced by those who know their ancestry.
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Old 08-08-2014, 07:52 PM
 
997 posts, read 1,055,095 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABQConvict View Post
There is a difference between being a Native American and having a Native American ancestor.

A lot of Americans have a Polish great-grandparent, but that doesn't make them Polish even if they eat pierogies.

I have a good friend who is half-Navajo, half-Anglo-American. He looks pretty darn Navajo, but since he is only half (and his mother even still lives on the rez), and he grew up in Ohio, he has trouble gaining full acceptence from Navajos here in New Mexico. Not because of his half bloodedness, but because he wasn't raised in a Navajo community. He is even considered bilagaana* by some Navajos.

*bilagaana basically means White, so in this case it appears that some Navajos employ the one-drop rule.
Very true. I have found I have a small African segment, I'm obviously still "white" and not African American, but I did most likely have an African American ancestor.

Though the distinction between our ancestors and ourselves is a very subjective thing.
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