U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Genealogy
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-18-2011, 10:27 PM
 
4,712 posts, read 3,070,712 times
Reputation: 6290

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by EnricoV View Post
Is they?
And this is? Sorry, I didn't know a synonym for 'genealogy' was 'rudeness'.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-19-2011, 05:37 AM
 
Location: Alabama
1,068 posts, read 1,656,479 times
Reputation: 951
Just because you have a "red tint" or whatever that means does not mean you are native american.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-19-2011, 05:48 AM
 
16,433 posts, read 21,045,622 times
Reputation: 9596
Quote:
Originally Posted by TreasuredJewel View Post
Just because you have a "red tint" or whatever that means does not mean you are native american.
I'm part Commanche from way back (can't calculate the fraction). No head rights though..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-20-2011, 01:55 AM
 
3,876 posts, read 3,646,194 times
Reputation: 2520
One thing that is overlooked on this thread is that Africa, Asia and Europe were part of the Old World and that their populations had contact with each other.

Therefore there was more resistance to diseases from these areas. Native Americans of the New World were highly susceptible to Old World diseases/viruses. Which in turn killed off and weakened Native populations.

Africans were more resistant to these Old World viruses and therefore a stronger and hardier people in the the Americas than the Natives after European contact.

Not a justification for slavery, but an explanation of one of the reasons why Africans made up a much larger percentage of slaves than the Natives.

Race mixing would help with disease resistance as any geneticist can attest to. That's why different strains of crops and breeds of animals are developed.

This would also hold true for White European/Native American ( Mesizo) mixed peoples. Smallpox and other diseases introduced from the Old World wrecked havoc on the indigenous populations.

In regards to the op's theories, a simple DNA test would be a good start. Check out a few programs by Prof. Gates on genology, that would be a good start. Henry Louis Gates - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
PBS Series – Henry Louis Gates, Jr. on “Black in Latin America” « Birmingham Genealogical Society Blog
HENRY LOUIS GATES SPEAKING ON BLACK GENEALOGY AND ANCESTRY
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-21-2011, 06:27 AM
 
Location: On the brink of WWIII
21,093 posts, read 26,992,711 times
Reputation: 7812
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoodsofATL View Post
Okay I've been thinking on this for about a few months now and it really pertains to the South and the Southeast in particular in the US. Okay so while the slave trade was going on Native Americans were going through their own sorrows, struggles and persecution by the same oppressor as the Africans in the slave trade. When the Africans came over its documented they were befriended with the Natives and some of the Natives even owned the slaves and treated with better treatment overall, plus they would compliment and help each other and their relationship was steady for quite awhile before the Trail of Tears and the near eradication of the Native population.

So here's the theory: I believe everything happens for a reason. The Native Americans and the Africans as a collective, in the spiritual sense decided to come together and create another race (bare with me ) which was African Americans [of course other races play apart in it, but the two main ones were the people from the natives of the Africa and the natives of the North America]

These two groups both share similar histories of oppression with the same group and both are nearly gone from this country (not African immigrants but the Africans who came with the Atlantic Slave Trade i.e. The Gullah People in the Lowcountry)

I say the southeast in particular because that's where Natives and Africans would seemingly flourish as far as interaction goes. For example the Black Seminoles in Florida is pretty common so I assume that the Southeast would be a hotbed area and also in Georgia I notice African Americans with a red tint, me included. I know that my great grandmother on my dad side was pure blood Native but I don't know what tribe and my great grandmother's mother on my mama side was pure blood. So I know I'm an example of this theory.

Any Thoughts?

But isn't this common knowledge? (may be not..)
Then again I might run with a different crowd than main-stream America.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TreasuredJewel View Post
Just because you have a "red tint" or whatever that means does not mean you are native american.
Hmmmm...how much does it take? At what point do people stop being who their ancestors were? Surely there will always be that familial connection. And if one chooses to be associated with a distant connection, is that "wrong?"
Can we loose the right to say I AM XXXX just because another generation has distanced us from that culture?

I rememeber a story a few years back ,when this genetic testing first started to trace your ancestry. There is a prominent professor in Louisiana who looked, was raised and lived as an African American. All his family did likewise. He wanted to trace his ancestry to Africa and did the genotype. Results were NEGATIVE for ANY African gene--NADA--ZILCH...He was NOT BLACK...at least according to his DNA.
What did he have to say? He said he was raised as a black person, lived as a black person and will continue to be a black person until he dies..but LEGALLY he was not a black person...

So is anyone really who they think they are? AND DOES IT REALLY MATTER?

Does 1/8 th count enough to call myself Cherokee?

Last edited by zthatzmanz28; 08-21-2011 at 06:41 AM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-21-2011, 07:28 AM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,129 posts, read 29,546,640 times
Reputation: 6885
Quote:
Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28 View Post
I rememeber a story a few years back ,when this genetic testing first started to trace your ancestry. There is a prominent professor in Louisiana who looked, was raised and lived as an African American. All his family did likewise. He wanted to trace his ancestry to Africa and did the genotype. Results were NEGATIVE for ANY African gene--NADA--ZILCH...He was NOT BLACK...at least according to his DNA.
What did he have to say? He said he was raised as a black person, lived as a black person and will continue to be a black person until he dies..but LEGALLY he was not a black person...
Was he the basis for the character in that Steve Martin movie?
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-21-2011, 09:12 AM
 
7,493 posts, read 11,125,490 times
Reputation: 7394
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoodsofATL View Post
Okay I've been thinking on this for about a few months now and it really pertains to the South and the Southeast in particular in the US. Okay so while the slave trade was going on Native Americans were going through their own sorrows, struggles and persecution by the same oppressor as the Africans in the slave trade. When the Africans came over its documented they were befriended with the Natives and some of the Natives even owned the slaves and treated with better treatment overall, plus they would compliment and help each other and their relationship was steady for quite awhile before the Trail of Tears and the near eradication of the Native population.

So here's the theory: I believe everything happens for a reason. The Native Americans and the Africans as a collective, in the spiritual sense decided to come together and create another race (bare with me ) which was African Americans [of course other races play apart in it, but the two main ones were the people from the natives of the Africa and the natives of the North America]

These two groups both share similar histories of oppression with the same group and both are nearly gone from this country (not African immigrants but the Africans who came with the Atlantic Slave Trade i.e. The Gullah People in the Lowcountry)

I say the southeast in particular because that's where Natives and Africans would seemingly flourish as far as interaction goes. For example the Black Seminoles in Florida is pretty common so I assume that the Southeast would be a hotbed area and also in Georgia I notice African Americans with a red tint, me included. I know that my great grandmother on my dad side was pure blood Native but I don't know what tribe and my great grandmother's mother on my mama side was pure blood. So I know I'm an example of this theory.

Any Thoughts?
I agree with you; both groups suffered a lot at the hands of early European immigrants and their descendants. I remember hearing in a history class that Florida Seminoles have quite a few mixed-race people, and that they once protected escaped slaves from other southern areas and created a shared culture. People of both African and Amerindian descent are often infamously referred to as "Black Indians" and in addition to the southeast are probably somewhat prominent in Oklahoma as well.

However it seems that American Indians and African-Americans as groups have had quite a different experience as far as some things. For example, while American Indians have been almost exterminated, North America and Canada once made the decision to "kill the Indian, save the man", by starting schools with the intention to integrate native children into mainstream American culture. Forget for a moment that most of these schools had nasty reputations for abusing kids and that this supposedly well-intentioned yet ignorant idea wiped out most natives' sense of culture for a lot of years. The idea that one man, a former military captain, Richard C. Pratt, saw some kind of potential in these people, speaks differently from the experience of generations of African and African-American slaves, who it seemed, did not have the same privilege of being viewed as human beings worth teaching. They were like robots whose sole purpose was to meet work quotas, take various forms of abuse without consequence, and use their own bodies up to nothing. Yes I'm aware there have always been free blacks, but for the most part, they were widely recognized for one sole purpose; work.

Then there is also the difference to consider that has to do with marriage; while many whites and American Indians intermixed over the years with almost no outside consequence of racism, and many American Indians adopted forms of American culture, language and religion and could easier blend in, African-Americans did not have this privilege for a long time. With certain exceptions, people who were to marry slaves would've risked becoming slaves also (on the occasion that slaves could marry at all), and children born to slaves were also slaves. There was pretty much no way out. Generations of racism thereafter discouraged white/black mixing and still happens to some extent. And there is still a lot of fire between white and black Americans for centuries of conflict, which I would suppose is less pronounced these days between white Americans and American Indians. So
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-21-2011, 10:49 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
3,331 posts, read 5,680,690 times
Reputation: 2079
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osito View Post
However it seems that American Indians and African-Americans as groups have had quite a different experience as far as some things. For example, while American Indians have been almost exterminated, North America and Canada once made the decision to "kill the Indian, save the man", by starting schools with the intention to integrate native children into mainstream American culture. Forget for a moment that most of these schools had nasty reputations for abusing kids and that this supposedly well-intentioned yet ignorant idea wiped out most natives' sense of culture for a lot of years. The idea that one man, a former military captain, Richard C. Pratt, saw some kind of potential in these people, speaks differently from the experience of generations of African and African-American slaves, who it seemed, did not have the same privilege of being viewed as human beings worth teaching. They were like robots whose sole purpose was to meet work quotas, take various forms of abuse without consequence, and use their own bodies up to nothing. Yes I'm aware there have always been free blacks, but for the most part, they were widely recognized for one sole purpose; work.

Then there is also the difference to consider that has to do with marriage; while many whites and American Indians intermixed over the years with almost no outside consequence of racism, and many American Indians adopted forms of American culture, language and religion and could easier blend in, African-Americans did not have this privilege for a long time. With certain exceptions, people who were to marry slaves would've risked becoming slaves also (on the occasion that slaves could marry at all), and children born to slaves were also slaves. There was pretty much no way out. Generations of racism thereafter discouraged white/black mixing and still happens to some extent. And there is still a lot of fire between white and black Americans for centuries of conflict, which I would suppose is less pronounced these days between white Americans and American Indians. So
What you say is very true. I forget who said it, but it went something like this: The white man does everything backwards. Everything the black man wanted, they tried to force on the Indian. What was rejected by the Indian was denied to the black man.

The conflict between Indian and white Americans is less pronounced overall, but in certain parts of the Nation, it is not.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-28-2011, 06:29 AM
 
Location: NYC
2,223 posts, read 5,091,722 times
Reputation: 1095
Have you ever considered that the admixture of Native Americans and Black Americans came from whites who are admixed with native blood, who then produced children with blacks?

It would certainly explain my DNA test results - 12% Asian, 30% European, 58% African.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-01-2011, 04:26 AM
 
Location: NYC
2,223 posts, read 5,091,722 times
Reputation: 1095
Quote:
Originally Posted by antarez View Post

In regards to the op's theories, a simple DNA test would be a good start. Check out a few programs by Prof. Gates on genology, that would be a good start. Henry Louis Gates - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
PBS Series – Henry Louis Gates, Jr. on “Black in Latin America” « Birmingham Genealogical Society Blog
HENRY LOUIS GATES SPEAKING ON BLACK GENEALOGY AND ANCESTRY
DNA Project for African Americans

Little is known about the connection between DNA and disease in African Americans. With your help, 23andMe can counter this trend. Roots into the Future will increase understanding of how DNA plays a role in health and wellness, especially for diseases more common in the African American community.
https://www.23andme.com/roots/



Benefits --
* FREE access to 23andMe's service (valued at $399)
* Discover your ancestral origins
* Help advance medical research
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Genealogy

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2022, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top