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Old 04-30-2014, 02:37 PM
 
Location: North Carolina
10,203 posts, read 17,805,604 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TracySam View Post
We were posting at the same time.
Yes, I knew about the ranges, just not the "trace" thing that just posted.

I know that the Celts from Ireland and Wales are supposedly of Iberian origin, but somewhere in there it says this test really just gives you the last several hundred to a thousand years, not thousands of years.
To go back to this, I was just reading a topic on FTDNA forums about how "ancient" components can show up on autosomal test results, depending on how the results are interpreted, I guess.

I just recently transferred my Ancestry.com test over to FTDNA and their analysis says I'm 72.07% Western Europe and 27.93% Middle East! The topic I referred to (which I can't link to because we're not allowed to link to other forums) talks about how many people with Southern Italian ancestry (which I have) show up as Middle East on FTDNA's results and that this is not a reflection of recent Middle Eastern ancestry but an "ancient component" based on the thousands of years old connections between Southern Italians and Middle Eastern people. It says some Southern Italians can also get a West Asia result which is also an ancient component relating to their Italian ancestry - which totally explains why I am getting some higher numbers of South or West Asia on my Gedmatch admixture proportions.

Anyway, my point is, something like this might be happening with your Iberian results. Again, I suggest you check out Gedmatch.com which is totally free, for some alternative interpretations of your test results - and also consider FTDNA, which is not a free transfer but might help. At the very least, check out FTDNA's forums (which are free), there's a lot of helpful info there.

 
Old 04-30-2014, 08:11 PM
 
2,672 posts, read 5,451,295 times
Reputation: 2607
Quote:
Originally Posted by PA2UK View Post
It's not that old, I know Sykes' work was published within the last ten years. If it was really that inaccurate, you'd think they wouldn't still be in print.




I'm not referencing blogs here...
A lot of books are still printed that have old information. It doesn't mean that they are still correct and that newer information hasn't been discovered. Twelve years is a lot of time in genetics science.
I'm just referencing blogs as there are lots of genetic blogs on the internet which still reference Oppenheimer and the old R1b theory and that Basques are the closest genetic people to the Celtic population of the British Isles. This is all over the Net even though the information is not correct.

Genetics is moving very quickly. The R1b hypothesis and Ice Age Refuge is definitely inaccurate. You can even look up PoBI research which was done only in the last couple of years about Britain. These dna projects are ongoing.

What makes the British? | Oxford Today

Autosomal cluster map of Europe


Last edited by Bernie20; 04-30-2014 at 08:23 PM..
 
Old 04-30-2014, 11:48 PM
 
2,672 posts, read 5,451,295 times
Reputation: 2607
Quote:
Originally Posted by TracySam View Post
So I just got my Ancestry DNA results, and most was not surprising.

51% European West
16% Scandinavian
14% Ireland
6% Great Britain
6% Iberian
(others all 2% or less, and can be accounted for by one person here or there, generations back)

But I was surprised to find that I'm 6% Iberian (which would be from Spain or Portugal). It also shows that I'm only 6% Great Britain, when I know I have a LOT more English and Scottish heritage than that. I guess that discrepancy can be accounted for by the fact that lots of other European groups invaded or emigrated to England in the last thousand years or so.

But 6% Iberian is high enough to be in the last few generations, I figure. As someone pointed out in another thread, if we go to my great-great-grandparents, there are 16 of them, and I presumably got 1/16 or 6.25% of my DNA from each of them (give or take).

So you would think that one of these twice-great grandparents must have been Iberian, or two of them could have been about half Iberian, right?

I have records on that whole generation, and on several lines, I have records back to the 1600s and 1700s. I need some hypotheses as to who might have been Spanish or Portuguese.

Great-Great-Grandparents:

1. Mr Totally Swedish
2. Miss Totally Swedish
3. Mr Completely Swedish
4. Miss Completely Swedish
5. Mr Totally German (Bavarian)
6. Miss Totally German (Bavarian)
7. Mr Completely German (Prussia)
8. Miss Completely German (Prussia)
9. Mr Nicholson (born USA 1850, parents Mr Nicholson and Miss McLane, both born in USA, lines in US back to late 1700s)
10. Miss Rexon (born in England, both parents born in England, all Grandparents born in England)
11. Mr Watson (born in USA 1849, parents Mr Watson and Miss Pine, both born in USA)
12. Miss Dill (born in USA 1856, parents Mr Dill and Miss Hendrickson, both born in USA)
13. Mr Stewart (born in Ireland, Parents were Mr Stewart from Scotland and Miss Barrett from Ireland)
14. Miss Lardner (born in Ireland, parents both born in Ireland)
15. Mr Whipple (born in USA 1852, parents Mr Whipple and Miss Stathem, both with lines in the US, back to colonial times)
16. Miss Friant (born in USA 1852, parents Mr Friant and Miss Maul, both born in US, with lines in US back to colonial times)

So I guess for our Iberians, we can rule out the first 8. I think an Iberian would emigrate to the US, not to Sweden or Germany, where people were leaving for the US.
Nicholson seems to be a name that could be English, Scottish, or German
McLane is clearly Scottish or Irish (though Miss McLane's mother was Miss Rogers, so perhaps she was a Rodrigues?)
Watson seems to be English/Anglo-Saxon or Scottish
Pine could be anything--English, French, German, but maybe Pina or Pinho could have been Spanish or Portuguese and they Anglicized it?
Dill seems to be German, Dutch, or English/Anglo-Saxon
Hendrickson seems to be Dutch, English, or Scottish
Whipple and Stathem have always been presumed to be English colonists, and my records go into the 1600s in NJ and Connecticut (Collier, Hubbard, Loomer, Palmer) But Miss Stathem's mother had a very German name and the lore is that she was the granddaughter of a Hessian soldier who settled here after the Revolution.
Friant could have been English/Anglo-Saxon, French, or German
Maul could have been German or Norman/French

Anyone have any ideas?
Just looked at your ancestors that were born in Ireland they seem to be Scots-Irish judging by the names. Were they Catholic or Protestant?
 
Old 05-01-2014, 09:35 AM
 
9,238 posts, read 22,842,854 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie20 View Post
Just looked at your ancestors that were born in Ireland they seem to be Scots-Irish judging by the names. Were they Catholic or Protestant?
Not sure, mostly Catholic. Mr. Stewart was a Presbyterian Scot from Glasgow, and he married Miss Barrett, an Irish Catholic from Rosecommon, resulting in both of them being disowned by their families, so they moved to London before coming to the US. Their children were all raised Catholic, but I could easily see the Protestant husband deferring to his Catholic wife, who might have been more adamant about religion.

The Lardner line, at least in late 1800s USA, were all Catholic. I've read that Lardner could be an English name, referring to meat suppliers & butchers, so that might point to Protestant. But I've also read that Lardners were stonecutters and masons originating in County Mayo, pointing them more toward being Catholic.

Miss Lardner's mother was "Miss Holland" also from Ireland. From what I understand (which isn't much) is that this family could have been name "Holland" because they were Dutch who moved to Ireland, or it was a new spelling of a Gaelic name that's similar to "Holland" ("Houlihan" also derives from that Gaelic name).

My family lore is that my Irish branch were all "poor, drunk, and Catholic."
 
Old 05-01-2014, 01:50 PM
 
2,672 posts, read 5,451,295 times
Reputation: 2607
Quote:
Originally Posted by TracySam View Post
Not sure, mostly Catholic. Mr. Stewart was a Presbyterian Scot from Glasgow, and he married Miss Barrett, an Irish Catholic from Rosecommon, resulting in both of them being disowned by their families, so they moved to London before coming to the US. Their children were all raised Catholic, but I could easily see the Protestant husband deferring to his Catholic wife, who might have been more adamant about religion.

The Lardner line, at least in late 1800s USA, were all Catholic. I've read that Lardner could be an English name, referring to meat suppliers & butchers, so that might point to Protestant. But I've also read that Lardners were stonecutters and masons originating in County Mayo, pointing them more toward being Catholic.

Miss Lardner's mother was "Miss Holland" also from Ireland. From what I understand (which isn't much) is that this family could have been name "Holland" because they were Dutch who moved to Ireland, or it was a new spelling of a Gaelic name that's similar to "Holland" ("Houlihan" also derives from that Gaelic name).

My family lore is that my Irish branch were all "poor, drunk, and Catholic."
Very interesting and thanks for responding. There are Hollands in Ireland and no there is no connection to being Dutch. Yes it is originally from a Gaelic name and just Anglicised. My father was from Boyle Co. Roscommon. You obviously do have Irish ancestry.
 
Old 05-05-2014, 09:22 AM
 
Location: Ohio
24,623 posts, read 19,108,889 times
Reputation: 21738
Quote:
Originally Posted by TracySam View Post
So I just got my Ancestry DNA results, and most was not surprising.

51% European West
16% Scandinavian
14% Ireland
6% Great Britain
6% Iberian
(others all 2% or less, and can be accounted for by one person here or there, generations back)

But I was surprised to find that I'm 6% Iberian (which would be from Spain or Portugal). It also shows that I'm only 6% Great Britain, when I know I have a LOT more English and Scottish heritage than that. I guess that discrepancy can be accounted for by the fact that lots of other European groups invaded or emigrated to England in the last thousand years or so.

But 6% Iberian is high enough to be in the last few generations, I figure. As someone pointed out in another thread, if we go to my great-great-grandparents, there are 16 of them, and I presumably got 1/16 or 6.25% of my DNA from each of them (give or take).

So you would think that one of these twice-great grandparents must have been Iberian, or two of them could have been about half Iberian, right?

I have records on that whole generation, and on several lines, I have records back to the 1600s and 1700s. I need some hypotheses as to who might have been Spanish or Portuguese.

Great-Great-Grandparents:

1. Mr Totally Swedish
2. Miss Totally Swedish
3. Mr Completely Swedish
4. Miss Completely Swedish
5. Mr Totally German (Bavarian)
6. Miss Totally German (Bavarian)
7. Mr Completely German (Prussia)
8. Miss Completely German (Prussia)
9. Mr Nicholson (born USA 1850, parents Mr Nicholson and Miss McLane, both born in USA, lines in US back to late 1700s)
10. Miss Rexon (born in England, both parents born in England, all Grandparents born in England)
11. Mr Watson (born in USA 1849, parents Mr Watson and Miss Pine, both born in USA)
12. Miss Dill (born in USA 1856, parents Mr Dill and Miss Hendrickson, both born in USA)
13. Mr Stewart (born in Ireland, Parents were Mr Stewart from Scotland and Miss Barrett from Ireland)
14. Miss Lardner (born in Ireland, parents both born in Ireland)
15. Mr Whipple (born in USA 1852, parents Mr Whipple and Miss Stathem, both with lines in the US, back to colonial times)
16. Miss Friant (born in USA 1852, parents Mr Friant and Miss Maul, both born in US, with lines in US back to colonial times)

So I guess for our Iberians, we can rule out the first 8. I think an Iberian would emigrate to the US, not to Sweden or Germany, where people were leaving for the US.
Nicholson seems to be a name that could be English, Scottish, or German
McLane is clearly Scottish or Irish (though Miss McLane's mother was Miss Rogers, so perhaps she was a Rodrigues?)
Watson seems to be English/Anglo-Saxon or Scottish
Pine could be anything--English, French, German, but maybe Pina or Pinho could have been Spanish or Portuguese and they Anglicized it?
Dill seems to be German, Dutch, or English/Anglo-Saxon
Hendrickson seems to be Dutch, English, or Scottish
Whipple and Stathem have always been presumed to be English colonists, and my records go into the 1600s in NJ and Connecticut (Collier, Hubbard, Loomer, Palmer) But Miss Stathem's mother had a very German name and the lore is that she was the granddaughter of a Hessian soldier who settled here after the Revolution.
Friant could have been English/Anglo-Saxon, French, or German
Maul could have been German or Norman/French

Anyone have any ideas?
The two Prussians.

Read Ancient Russia by George Vernadsky (Yale University Press, New Haven; 1943). You'll need Volume I and probably Volume II.

The Iberians were a group of "Scythians" originating in Iran --- Indo-Aryan/Indo-European -- who settled near the Caucus Mountains.

The Iberians have their own book in the Christian New Testament called Galatians. They occupied the region of Galicia and had a sub-tribe known as Gauls.

Now that you know that, what did the Gauls do?

They migrated north to the area known as Sarmatia, but which you know as Poland, and they established a region called, um, Galicia. The Prussian Kingdom encompassed Galicia.

Then they mirgrated west to northern France where they established a region called, um, Galicia.

Then they migrated south of the Pyrenees to Spain and established a region called, uh, Galicia.

The Gauls are one of the groups who annihilated the Hittite Empire around 1900 BCE, so you got that going for you.

Hope that helps...


Mircea
 
Old 05-05-2014, 12:02 PM
 
9,238 posts, read 22,842,854 times
Reputation: 22693
Interesting, I'll look into all of that. But I have zero Eastern European in me.
 
Old 05-05-2014, 07:42 PM
 
Location: Ohio
24,623 posts, read 19,108,889 times
Reputation: 21738
Quote:
Originally Posted by TracySam View Post
Interesting, I'll look into all of that. But I have zero Eastern European in me.
Moderator cut: rudeness







And at the base of the mountain this Emperor built a very strong fortress and established there a considerable garrison of troops, in order that the barbarian Saracens might not be able from that region, which, as I have said, is uninhabited, to make inroads with complete secrecy into the lands of Palestine proper.

10 Thus, then, were these things done. All that he did in the monasteries of this region and throughout the rest of the East I shall now record in the form of a summary.
9 1 These, then, were the monasteries restored in Jerusalem:
1 The Monastery of St. Thalelaeus.
2 The Monastery of St. Gregory.
3 Also St. Panteleëmon's in the Desert of Jordan.
4 A hospice in Jerichô.
p359 5 A Church of the Mother of God in Jerichô.
6 The Monastery of the Iberians in Jerusalem.
7 The Monastery of the Lazi in the Desert of Jerusalem.

And the commanders were men of note: Constantinus and Bessas from the land of Thrace, and Peranius from Iberia[21] which is hard by Media, a man who was by birth a member of the royal family of the Iberians, but had before this time come as a deserter to the Romans through enmity toward the Persians; and the levies of cavalry were commanded by Valentinus, Magnus, and Innocentius, and the infantry by Herodian, Paulus, Demetrius, and Ursicinus, while the leader of the Isaurians was Ennes.


The Taurus mountain range of Cilicia passes first Cappadocia and Armenia and the land of the so-called Persarmenians, then also Albania and Iberia and all the other countries in this region, both independent and subject to Persia.


[emphasis mine]

You're 6% Iranian.

A group of your Iranian ancestors...the Gauls -- a sub-tribe of the Iberians...migrated north to Galicia which is south and east of Krakau.

Ancestrally.....

Mircea

Last edited by in_newengland; 05-05-2014 at 08:08 PM..
 
Old 05-06-2014, 07:04 AM
 
9,238 posts, read 22,842,854 times
Reputation: 22693
Um, not quite sure where you're going with this.....

My ancestors from Prussia were German, living in western Europe. Germany was not a country yet. Yes, we're all impressed that you can look up so much history, but it has nothing to do with my post. It also looks like you got nasty with me and it was cut. Not sure what your "issue" is.

Like I stated, the 6% Iberian they found in my DNA is a "trace" which could actually be 0%. Or like others have stated, one of my western European could have had some Iberian ancestry. My DNA test showed ZERO Eastern Europe, and no Middle Eastern either. You're the one who introduced Galicia into this, but it does not seem relevant.

So if you are just trying to show off your research ability, that's fine, but it's not about my question. Thank you.
 
Old 05-06-2014, 07:17 AM
 
Location: near bears but at least no snakes
26,650 posts, read 28,563,001 times
Reputation: 50477
temporarily closed
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