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I checked through Italiangen website and the closest I could come to any George West marrying a woman named anything close to Antoinette/Annette was: Annette Antes, married 29 Nov 1894, Manhattan, New York
Now it's certainly possible that this is your Antoinette, and that she may have been married previously, but since this is all the data I could find on a marriage, it doesn't provide nearly enough information to make that leap.
So...after looking at all viable candidates there are a few things that pop up. First, he claims his parents were both born in the USA. Since almost all of the West families that have a son George born born between 1859 and 1861 are mostly from out of the country, I ruled them out. That left only George Sr. and Gertrude as George's potential parents. In the 1870 census, they were located in Saratoga co., and in 1880, they were in Schenectady. By 1900, it appears that George Sr. has remarried (perhaps Gertrude died) and none of his children (George, Annie or John) are living there. By this time, I would assume that Annie had married and perhaps George Jr. as well. Nothing definitive was found on John. Although your George claims he was born in Manhattan, that may or may not be true and if it is true, then his parents were absolutely born out of country. Since it can't be both, it has to be one or the other.
I once had an ancestor that on every census, claimed he was born in Massachusetts in 1868. Even though I scoured every family and record for every person born with that name, I couldn't find Alexander. Turns out that I had the correct year of birth, but he wasn't born in Massachusetts...he was born in Canada,immigrated when he was just 3 and raised in Massachusetts. I never thought to look for someone born out of country because he was so consistent in the census as being born in Massachusetts. Just goes to show you that you simply can't rule out anything!
Just remember that census workers did not personally question every person in the family. They got their info the best they could from anyone they could find. Sometimes from parents, grandparents, sometimes older children, sometimes a person just staying with the family or even from neighbors if nobody else could be found.
It's been so hard to research my mom's side of the family tree because most of her relatives had VERY common names, and I'm apparently not advanced enough to be certain I'm viewing the correct records for HER ancestors. I'm using Ancestry.com.
Even the first names are unremarkable, like James and William. Can anyone offer tips to help me sort out which people named Johnson, Baker and Mills in the south might be related to my mom?
I try to be nice to people like you.
When I am doing research and I come across an obituary or other information for someone with a common name like "Smith," "Jones" or "Johnson," I try to add that person to my tree on ancestry.com, even though I might not necessarily be related to them. I do it to help other people like you. I know that ancestors with common names can be a nightmare to trace and untangle.
I am having the same problems with one g-g-g-g-grandmother who lived about 200 years ago. Her maiden name was Johnson. I'll probably never be able to taken her line back very far.
It looks RV Cook has given you some good information!
Since visiting this forum, I had to get on the internet and look around at Arizona sites, for new leads. I always end up following links and New York Genealogical&Biological Society and thinking of this thread I looked there.
To me it looked like a good site. If you are not a member of Ancestry then you can search the genealogy database of New York there for free. Of course, Ancestry bought their database, like many other states. I looked a cemetery for Manhatten, only one for Manhatten, but I don't know your county and actually it could have been on a linked site, I didn't write that site down. However, you can follow links and find it.
There were a few West in that cemetery.
I did find H.Satterley in the cemetery, interred 4/1/1847 but removed 4/9/1860. My grandma's maiden name was Satterlee and her sister lived in New York. I made a note of that for future reference.
So...after looking at all viable candidates there are a few things that pop up. First, he claims his parents were both born in the USA. Since almost all of the West families that have a son George born born between 1859 and 1861 are mostly from out of the country, I ruled them out. That left only George Sr. and Gertrude as George's potential parents. In the 1870 census, they were located in Saratoga co., and in 1880, they were in Schenectady. By 1900, it appears that George Sr. has remarried (perhaps Gertrude died) and none of his children (George, Annie or John) are living there. By this time, I would assume that Annie had married and perhaps George Jr. as well. Nothing definitive was found on John. Although your George claims he was born in Manhattan, that may or may not be true and if it is true, then his parents were absolutely born out of country. Since it can't be both, it has to be one or the other.
I once had an ancestor that on every census, claimed he was born in Massachusetts in 1868. Even though I scoured every family and record for every person born with that name, I couldn't find Alexander. Turns out that I had the correct year of birth, but he wasn't born in Massachusetts...he was born in Canada,immigrated when he was just 3 and raised in Massachusetts. I never thought to look for someone born out of country because he was so consistent in the census as being born in Massachusetts. Just goes to show you that you simply can't rule out anything!
Hope this helps a little.
RVcook
Thanks for your help!
The part about ggrandma being born on ship, and the fact that ggrandpa claims his home town was NY bugged me too. Did he start out in NY and then go over to Germany and get her? Obviously they were close because she had his child on board.
I joined Ancestry for the free trial, but cancelled it because I really don't know how to search effectively. I'll rejoin when I learn how to effectively do a genealogical search and have more time to devote to it.
The part about ggrandma being born on ship, and the fact that ggrandpa claims his home town was NY bugged me too. Did he start out in NY and then go over to Germany and get her? Obviously they were close because she had his child on board.
I joined Ancestry for the free trial, but cancelled it because I really don't know how to search effectively. I'll rejoin when I learn how to effectively do a genealogical search and have more time to devote to it.
Glad it helped a little...at least enough to get you thinking more critically about how to approach the research.
As far as your ggpa and ggma, although it is possible that your ggpa went to Germany to get your ggma, a more likely scenario would be that your ggma was born on a ship while immigrating to the US with her parents. Ggpa being born in the US (regardless of where his parents were born), suggests to me that they married in the states as he did not necessarily have direct ties to Germany that would have necessitated trips back and forth.
One more thing to consider for George...I have found that not everyone keeps their same name throughout the census years so if did not die, he may have gone by a different first name. It was also very common for people whose spouse had left the family (by death or by choice) to list their marital status as "Wd" so you can't trust that either. And did you notice on the 1910 census that Annetti now lists her place of birth as New York? I betcha she either got tired of explaining that she had been born on a ship -OR- she actually was born in New York.
Glad it helped a little...at least enough to get you thinking more critically about how to approach the research.
As far as your ggpa and ggma, although it is possible that your ggpa went to Germany to get your ggma, a more likely scenario would be that your ggma was born on a ship while immigrating to the US with her parents. Ggpa being born in the US (regardless of where his parents were born), suggests to me that they married in the states as he did not necessarily have direct ties to Germany that would have necessitated trips back and forth.
One more thing to consider for George...I have found that not everyone keeps their same name throughout the census years so if did not die, he may have gone by a different first name. It was also very common for people whose spouse had left the family (by death or by choice) to list their marital status as "Wd" so you can't trust that either. And did you notice on the 1910 census that Annetti now lists her place of birth as New York? I betcha she either got tired of explaining that she had been born on a ship -OR- she actually was born in New York.
Again, glad I could help.
RVcook
The story that's been handed down was that when GGgrandma was in labor, the ship's Captain put American soil under the bed so GGram would be born a US citizen
The story that's been handed down was that when GGgrandma was in labor, the ship's Captain put American soil under the bed so GGram would be born a US citizen
Gotta love good family folklore ...just don't take it as the absolute truth. Facts tend to get 'muddled' over time and it gets more difficult to differentiate fact from fiction when searching in reverse.
In my own family, even though I was told the fairy tale story of my g-grandparents, immigration and hard work, I found out that just about all of it was a myth: my grandfather was abandoned at birth and 'given' to my g-grandmother to raise in a very small village in Italy; our family surname it turns out, was just made up ; and because there was no official birth record with the correct family name, my grandfather entered this country under an assumed name. Uncovering this was shocking enough, but imagine how my mom, a first-generation American felt to hear all of this. Then, the more I dug, the more I uncovered until finally my aunt got all teed-off and screamed at my mom "why can't people just leave the past alone?!?!" Hmmmm...guess she knew it was a lie all along now didn't she...?
So basically, when I first started researching, I did what any good researcher would do, I talked to family. Once you are a little more seasoned, you will find things that absolutely astound and amaze you. It bears repeating here: whenever I offer to do in-depth research for someone I always have to ask them if they're sure they want me to dig, because from what my experience has been, the descendants may find out things they never wanted to know.
I enjoy hearing the family folklore but I don't take it as fact. I think citizenship has more to do with whether the ship is in international waters or american waters but I never bothered to find out.
RV, When I started my search, I called my sister who is 20 years older than me to ask her some questions.
Her response was total dead silence at first, then she told me firmly that I should concentrate on the living and not the dead. jeeze.. I'm almost 60. Nobody talks to me like that so I knew she was scared of something.
So, I think there are things she doesn't want me to find out. I'm sure there are some interesting skeletons in our family closet somewhere. I know many of them, but now she's got me wondering if there are more skeletons I don't know about.
The ironic part is that when you reach a certain age, like me for instance Not much is shocking.
That's an interesting family history you have. In defense of your poor ggrandpa who can't defend himself a lot of last names were created as just a way for others with similar first names to tell each other apart, not only that but once immigrants hit the US the immigration people that wrote down their names probably didn't understand a word they said so whatever was written on their documents became their last name whether they liked it or not.
Back then it was not uncommon for parents to 'give' their children away especially if they couldn't afford to feed them, nor was it uncommon for an unmarried daughters child to be raised by her parents, but brought up believing the gparents were their real parents. That happened years ago with a family friend. I often wondered if they knew the truth, but they're all dead now so it doesn't matter.
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However, you can follow links and find it.
...just don't take it as the absolute truth. Facts tend to get 'muddled' over time and it gets more difficult to differentiate fact from fiction when searching in reverse.
; and because there was no official birth record with the correct family name, my grandfather entered this country under an assumed name. Uncovering this was shocking enough, but imagine how my mom, a first-generation American felt to hear all of this. Then, the more I dug, the more I uncovered until finally my aunt got all teed-off and screamed at my mom "why can't people just leave the past alone?!?!" Hmmmm...guess she knew it was a lie all along now didn't she...?
Not much is shocking. 
