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I think Dustin already knew his family background, but was saying it meant more to him after learning about his ancestors' experiences, him not having been raised religious. Interesting that his grandmother tried to sue Communist Russia for murdering her husband. I thought it was odd and could cause confusion for some that they called the called the Communist camps Concentration Camps, instead of Gulags! The less well read will hear concentration camp and think it had to do with Germany and Nazis though it was years or even decades before and in different countries. No, the camp system of the commies were called Gulags. Funny how communists/socialists always promise people a better life then proceed to murder millions to secure power. Every time in every country. Very reminiscent of the saying, "Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it."
---> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag
Here's a guy's point of view about Mia's grandfather. It's too bad he had his wife committed. But it's also hard to say how much of that was him being a product of his time, being told that was the best thing for the baby, etc. versus the sort of automatic judgmentalism Mia showed acting like he must be a jerk or somehow evil for, no doubt, following the advice of doctors and lawyers at the time. As wrong as that advice likely was, there's no reason to think he wasn't heartbroken and thought he had no choice.
Here's a guy's point of view about Mia's grandfather. It's too bad he had his wife committed. But it's also hard to say how much of that was him being a product of his time, being told that was the best thing for the baby, etc. versus the sort of automatic judgmentalism Mia showed acting like he must be a jerk or somehow evil for, no doubt, following the advice of doctors and lawyers at the time. As wrong as that advice likely was, there's no reason to think he wasn't heartbroken and thought he had no choice.
My "women's" point of view aligns with yours when it comes to her grandfather. I think he did what he was told to do. In those days people didn't understand these conditions.
But I can also understand Mia's reaction based upon her life as sort of an "earth mother" who has fourteen children, her own and adopted from all over the world. She probably identified strongly with her poor hospitalized grandmother. She only softened her viewpoint when she realized that the grandfather was probably a nice guy who did his best.
Excellent episode... A fan of Dustin Hoffman so was interesting to see him journey through his ancestry. It was also very rewarding to see him go from feeling disconnected to really connecting with his ancestors.
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Originally Posted by bjh
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I think Dustin already knew his family background, but was saying it meant more to him after learning about his ancestors' experiences, him not having been raised religious. Interesting that his grandmother tried to sue Communist Russia for murdering her husband. I thought it was odd and could cause confusion for some that they called the called the Communist camps Concentration Camps, instead of Gulags! The less well read will hear concentration camp and think it had to do with Germany and Nazis though it was years or even decades before and in different countries. No, the camp system of the commies were called Gulags. [i]Funny how communists/socialists always promise people a better life then proceed to murder millions to secure power. Every time in every country. Very reminiscent of the saying, "Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it."
---> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag
Here's a guy's point of view about Mia's grandfather. It's too bad he had his wife committed. But it's also hard to say how much of that was him being a product of his time, being told that was the best thing for the baby, etc. versus the sort of automatic judgmentalism Mia showed acting like he must be a jerk or somehow evil for, no doubt, following the advice of doctors and lawyers at the time. As wrong as that advice likely was, there's no reason to think he wasn't heartbroken and thought he had no choice.
I would suggest that the pattern of people promising people better lives and proceeding to murder millions to secure power is a pattern found in the entirety of human history, repeated over and over in nearly every political, cultural, or belief system you can think of... It certainly was very popular among the capitalist monarchies.
I agree with your conclusion about Mia's grandfather. I was surprised at how quick she was to demonize him. Maybe his wife was suffering and he didn't know what else to do but send her to a place that supposedly had experts on the subject. Without personal context we simply don't know if it was done out of love or something else.
I also loved this episode. Except for the fact that my local PBS affiliate decided to interrupt the show 4 times for their fundraising campaign.
It really hit me how, when people decide to "leave behind" their family, how they really deprive their children and grandchildren of that connection to the past and the stories of the ancestors. I'm sure Farrow's father and Hoffman's father had their personal reasons for totally disconnecting from their families of origin, but to not even share names and stories with their children is really "genealogical robbery" in my opinion.
That old lady from Russia, who survived her husband's and son's murders, and then years in a gulag, then losing an arm, and then coming to the US by way of a several year sojourn in Argentina...Thank God her story has been found and can now be told. How many other lost stories are there out there? Whenever I uncover lost stories in my own lines (and not even nearly as heroic as that!) I always feel like that person on the other side guided me to their story, wanted it told, and they are happy it's been found. You could almost imagine that old lady smiling down on Hoffman and the makers of the show.
I also loved this episode. Except for the fact that my local PBS affiliate decided to interrupt the show 4 times for their fundraising campaign.
It really hit me how, when people decide to "leave behind" their family, how they really deprive their children and grandchildren of that connection to the past and the stories of the ancestors. I'm sure Farrow's father and Hoffman's father had their personal reasons for totally disconnecting from their families of origin, but to not even share names and stories with their children is really "genealogical robbery" in my opinion.
That old lady from Russia, who survived her husband's and son's murders, and then years in a gulag, then losing an arm, and then coming to the US by way of a several year sojourn in Argentina...Thank God her story has been found and can now be told. How many other lost stories are there out there? Whenever I uncover lost stories in my own lines (and not even nearly as heroic as that!) I always feel like that person on the other side guided me to their story, wanted it told, and they are happy it's been found. You could almost imagine that old lady smiling down on Hoffman and the makers of the show.
That story was heartbreaking and inspiring. It is crazy that no one ever spoke of her in their family.
In regards to the info above, this era is actually one of great interest to me being that I have 4 lines of free persons of color in my ancestry, including many mullattos or mixed race individuals. I have many cousins who look completely white with blonde hair and blue eyes and everything who genetic ancestry says are 8-10% black. They are related to me through my great grandmother whose grandmother was a white woman from England and her grandfather was a white/black mixed-race person from VA. On her father's side both her parents were mixed race as well from VA originally. Some of my white relatives never knew they were part black. All of my free lines were from the Mid-Atlantic originally, including VA, MD, and PA. Both VA and MD especially are places that I am currently researching to see if our family are descended from a white female indentured servant. Racial segregation was not as entrenched during the 1600s and 1700s as it later became due to the association of slavery with only black persons. And the laws passed, many historians feel were in relation to uprisings amongst the indentured class whereas Europeans, Africans, and mulattos rose up against the wealthy white classes, such as what occurred in "Bacon's Rebellion." Many historians believe the laws were passed in an effort to segregate the larger, lower class persons and to decrease their strength in an effort to reduce future uprisings and to halt the propagation of mullattos.
I remember Wanda Sykes had a similar ancestry when she was profiled by Gates on either FYR or African American Lives some years ago.
Unfortunately, most Americans it seems do not know about the colonial past in regards to indentured servitude especially and that a large amount, probably a majority of the first Africans who came to the English colonies were in fact indentured servants and not slaves.
The very first Africans bought were from a visting slave ship which stopped off in Jamestown in 1609. Ten africans were bought. But they were bought as indentured rather than as slaves, and they were not indentured for life. One, ironically, ended up a wealthy man with slaves, one of whom escaped and the resulting punishment is a stone along the road to lifetime slavery. While Britan was busy emptying poor houses, orphanages, prisons, East end streets and anyone who lost a war into the indentured trade, there was little need to buy from the more expensive slave trade. The servant trade, which was supplied by British prisons where 'lower level' criminals were shipped away on slave ships, the entire enterprise carried out by the same companys who sold blacks as slaves, was actually bigger and more profitable than the slave trade. The court paid a bounty for the companies to take them away which paid for the voyage. So anything they made was profit. They also tended to overcrowd as the court was willing to over look that they'd sold more than they were supposed to.
It ended in terms of the US when the first ship was sent home in 1776. Two were sent on their way when the war ended and the servant trade opened for Australia.
Bacon's rebellion should be studied as a summary moment in American history. Bacon himself was a guy who was louder than anyone else, but Maryland was a sea of released indentured, free Blacks, new arrivals who found there were no jobs and a whole group of people with no options. The locals were living in fine houses and making big money on tabacco. After an incident, the governers house was nearly burned down. It ended up with the mass giving up, but was a lesson forever to the elite. It was after that that the divisions between white and black, or mulatto, land owning and not, and skilled and not skilled were sharply defined and achieved the goal of reducing the size of a future mob. But before that race had little meaning. Class was more determined by wealth and lifestyle, and if you were poor you were just part of a sometimes useful mob of cheap labor.
Bacon's Rebellion's failure and warning and legacy was the divide which grew into 'two nations' generations later.
The very first Africans bought were from a visting slave ship which stopped off in Jamestown in 1609. Ten africans were bought. But they were bought as indentured rather than as slaves, and they were not indentured for life. One, ironically, ended up a wealthy man with slaves, one of whom escaped and the resulting punishment is a stone along the road to lifetime slavery. While Britan was busy emptying poor houses, orphanages, prisons, East end streets and anyone who lost a war into the indentured trade, there was little need to buy from the more expensive slave trade. The servant trade, which was supplied by British prisons where 'lower level' criminals were shipped away on slave ships, the entire enterprise carried out by the same companys who sold blacks as slaves, was actually bigger and more profitable than the slave trade. The court paid a bounty for the companies to take them away which paid for the voyage. So anything they made was profit. They also tended to overcrowd as the court was willing to over look that they'd sold more than they were supposed to.
It ended in terms of the US when the first ship was sent home in 1776. Two were sent on their way when the war ended and the servant trade opened for Australia.
Bacon's rebellion should be studied as a summary moment in American history. Bacon himself was a guy who was louder than anyone else, but Maryland was a sea of released indentured, free Blacks, new arrivals who found there were no jobs and a whole group of people with no options. The locals were living in fine houses and making big money on tabacco. After an incident, the governers house was nearly burned down. It ended up with the mass giving up, but was a lesson forever to the elite. It was after that that the divisions between white and black, or mulatto, land owning and not, and skilled and not skilled were sharply defined and achieved the goal of reducing the size of a future mob. But before that race had little meaning. Class was more determined by wealth and lifestyle, and if you were poor you were just part of a sometimes useful mob of cheap labor.
Bacon's Rebellion's failure and warning and legacy was the divide which grew into 'two nations' generations later.
This is so true. I get sad thinking of what could have been if all the steps had not been taken to separate our earliest ancestors. I don't think as a society we can ever get back to being only a class based society due to the separation and discriminatory treatment that occurred from the early 18th century forward.
I really liked the episode with Dustin Hoffman. I would like to know how Dr Gates went from Dustin's great-granfather's name of Mischko (can't remember the last name) to Samuel Hoffman. It was never explained.
I agree with your conclusion about Mia's grandfather. I was surprised at how quick she was to demonize him. Maybe his wife was suffering and he didn't know what else to do but send her to a place that supposedly had experts on the subject. Without personal context we simply don't know if it was done out of love or something else.
I was surprised at that also. Her reaction was quick and prejudicial.
The tendency for people to hide or erase their pasts is so interesting and puzzling. The ways people choose to deal with pain never cease to amaze me.
These episodes really showed the effects of those decisions.
If you know anything about Mia, she is what could be called an "earth mother." She has adopted many children and her life has centered around them. Last thing I knew she was living on many acres in rural CT with her large brood. I think, for that reason, she would easily side with a mother as a knee jerk response. It's just who she is and what her life is about, what she values.
In retrospect, it's ironic that she would take in children and devote her life to them and turn out to have a grandmother who was deprived of her child and lived a sad short life as a result of having given birth. Funny how genealogy works.
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No, the camp system of the commies were called Gulags. Funny how communists/socialists always promise people a better life then proceed to murder millions to secure power. Every time in every country. Very reminiscent of the saying, "Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it."
