Based on my dna results, can I assume my grandmother was Turkish? (dark, Caucasian)

[aries63]

Originally Posted by Vanillaskye

I took the Ancestry test. My other three grandparents were primarily Italian, which came up on the test, so it could not have been from them.

So you got roughly 75% Italian/Greek, and 10% Caucasus, and what was the remaining 15%? Eastern Europe?

In any case, a lot of people get "Caucasus" on Ancestry but do not have any ancestry from Turkey or anywhere in the Caucasus. So you can't assume anything about your Hungarian grandmother's ancestry based on that result. But it would be good to compare with people with significant Hungarian ancestry who have tested with Ancestry to find out what resultys they are getting besides Eastern European. Are you finding matches to relatives with Hungarian ancestry? If you were finding matches to people with all Turkish ancestry, then that would be meaningful.

[Vanillaskye]

Originally Posted by aries63

So you got roughly 75% Italian/Greek, and 10% Caucasus, and what was the remaining 15%? Eastern Europe?

In any case, a lot of people get "Caucasus" on Ancestry but do not have any ancestry from Turkey or anywhere in the Caucasus. So you can't assume anything about your Hungarian grandmother's ancestry based on that result. But it would be good to compare with people with significant Hungarian ancestry who have tested with Ancestry to find out what resultys they are getting besides Eastern European. Are you finding matches to relatives with Hungarian ancestry? If you were finding matches to people with all Turkish ancestry, then that would be meaningful.

My breakdown went like this:

67% Italy/Greece
10% Caucasus
8% Great Britain
5% European Jewish
5% Eastern European
3% Ireland
2% Middle East

[PA2UK]

Originally Posted by Vanillaskye

I took the Ancestry test. My other three grandparents were primarily Italian, which came up on the test, so it could not have been from them.

Not true at all. It's not uncommon for people with Mediterranean ancestry, like Italians and Greeks, to get some results in the Middle East and Caucasus too - so the Caucasus results may not even be related to your Hungarian ancestry after all.

Look at the details of the Caucasus category on Ancestry's test. It says:

Caucasus
Primarily located in: Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Turkey
Also found in: Bulgaria, Jordan, Greece, Italy, Kuwait, Palestine, Romania, Turkmenistan

[ozarknation]

Originally Posted by PA2UK

Not true at all. It's not uncommon for people with Mediterranean ancestry, like Italians and Greeks, to get some results in the Middle East and Caucasus too - so the Caucasus results may not even be related to your Hungarian ancestry after all.

Look at the details of the Caucasus category on Ancestry's test. It says:

Caucasus
Primarily located in: Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Turkey
Also found in: Bulgaria, Jordan, Greece, Italy, Kuwait, Palestine, Romania, Turkmenistan

I agree 100% with you.
I have italian grandparents and that "caucasus" always shows up.

Population
SE_Asian 7.62
Early_Neolithic_Farmers 17.39
SW_Asian 10.70
Ancestral_South_Indian 1.36
Eastern_Hunter_Gatherer 11.03
WHG 22.58
Siberian_E_Asian 9.19
Caucausus_Hunter_Gatherer 9.88 <====
W_African 10.25

[PA2UK]

Yeah, I have one Italian grandparent (the rest being British, German, and Norwegian, and too far from the Caucasus region to be related) and I frequently get small numbers in Caucasus. 2% from Ancestry. Originally 12% Asia Minor (same region) from FamilyTreeDNA but with their update that disappeared. But on Gedmatch, I consistently get results in that area - Eurogenes K15 and K13 say about 8-10% "West Asia" which is primarily the Caucasus/Asia Minor region:

[Roselvr]

Originally Posted by Vanillaskye

My breakdown went like this:

67% Italy/Greece
10% Caucasus
8% Great Britain
5% European Jewish
5% Eastern European
3% Ireland
2% Middle East

I'm Hungarian both sides, will post my Ancestry results so you can see it. I have Italy/Greece, European Jewish, Eastern European and Middle East. I suggest going to GEDmatch to use the heritage tool to see if you can break it down more. I recently found that siblings to both of my mothers parents came to the US; the ones related to her father are similar to mine with the Italy/ Greece, Europe East and West. The one confirmed match to her mothers sister has Scandinavian, Europe West, Europe East, Ireland and Great Britain. I found records for her fathers brothers, one is described as light with blond hair and blue eyes. I'll have to ask my matches if they ever log in again what the other 2 brothers looked like. I have a photo of one of my grandmothers sisters.

I did a test with My Heritage but haven't gotten my ethnicity estimate back yet because I'm part of the founders population project. They were interested in me because they saw my parents came from Hungary in the 50's. I've been seeing commercials about a mothers day sale, how they have accurate results due to the project, it's already been 6 months. I emailed one of the reps, she said another 4 to 6 weeks.

GEDmatch - copy your DNA sample number, go to Admixture (heritage), select project, Eurogenes. Next page, Select how you want to process it: Admixture Proportions (With link to Oracle); Enter your kit number: Select the 'calculator' model to use: Eurogenes K13, Enter your Ethnicity: you'll then get the graph, Eurogenes K13 Admixture Proportions; under the populations on the left, you'll see oracle and oracle -4

Ancestry results
53% - Europe East - Primarily located in: Poland, Slovakia, Czech Republic, Austria, Russia, Hungary, Slovenia, Romania, Serbia, Ukraine, Belarus, Moldova, Lithuania, Latvia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia

Also found in: Germany, Montenegro, Albania, Kosovo, Macedonia, Estonia, Bulgaria

The Europe East region stretches from the Baltic Sea in the north to the borders of Greece in the south. Throughout history, the region has stood at the crossroads—and often in the crosshairs—of Europe and Central Asia. Despite constant invasions and occupations over the centuries, the hardy inhabitants have, nevertheless, managed to persevere.

19% - Europe West - Primarily located in: Belgium, France, Germany, Netherlands, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein

Also found in: England, Denmark, Italy, Slovenia, Czech Republic

The Europe West region is a broad expanse stretching from Amsterdam's sea-level metropolis to the majestic peaks of the Alps. Geographically dominated by France in the west and Germany in the east, it includes several nations with distinct cultural identities. From the boisterous beer gardens of Munich to the sun-soaked vineyards of Bordeaux and the alpine dairy farms of Switzerland, it is a region of charming cultural diversity.

16% Italy/Greece - Primarily located in: Italy, Greece

Also found in: France, Switzerland, Portugal, Spain, Serbia, Hungary, Bulgaria, Austria, Croatia, Bosnia, Romania, Turkey, Slovenia, Algeria, Tunisia, Montenegro, Albania, Macedonia, Kosovo

Located in the south of Europe, against the Mediterranean Sea, this region gave rise to some of the most iconic and powerful cultures the Western world has known. The Greeks were first, with their pantheon of gods, legendary heroes, philosophers and artists. They subsequently influenced the Romans, whose vast empire spread its ideas and language across Europe.


Caucasus - Primarily located in: Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Turkey

Also found in: Bulgaria, Jordan, Greece, Italy, Kuwait, Palestine, Romania, Turkmenistan

The Greater Caucasus Range, running northwest to southeast between the Black and Caspian Seas, is the traditional line of demarcation between the continents of Europe and Asia. It was here, according to Greek mythology, that Zeus bound Prometheus for giving fire to humans. Linguistically, culturally, and even ecologically diverse, the Caucasus area is home to more than 50 ethnic groups and is one of 34 "biodiversity hotspots" (areas with significant, threatened biodiversity) in the world.


Middle East - Primarily located in: Syria, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Oman, Yemen, United Arab Emirates (UAE), Lebanon, Israel

Also found in: Iran, Pakistan

Geography and human history have kept this region perpetually in the spotlight. It sits between Eurasia and Africa and is home to some of the world’s earliest civilizations. It is also the birthplace of three of the world’s major religions—Judaism, Christianity and Islam—with the most holy places of those faiths scattered from Jerusalem to Mecca. Since it was first inhabited, this vital region has been a natural center of learning, trade, culture—and conflict.

Trace Regions - 9%
European Jewish 4%
Finland/ Northwest Russia 2%
Great Britain 1%
Ireland <1%
Scandinavian <1%

West Asia 2% Trace Regions
Caucasus 1%
Middle East < 1%

_____________________

Here are my Eurogenes from GEDmatch
Eurogenes K13 Oracle results:
K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013

Kit A474026

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 31.94
2 North_Atlantic 28.72
3 West_Med 13.47
4 East_Med 12.28
5 West_Asian 9.51
6 Red_Sea 2.08
7 Siberian 1.31
8 Sub-Saharan 0.46
9 Amerindian 0.24

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Hungarian 4.37
2 Moldavian 4.83
3 Croatian 5.2
4 Serbian 5.74
5 Austrian 8.76
6 East_German 9.72
7 Romanian 9.8
8 Ukrainian_Lviv 11.09
9 South_Polish 11.16
10 Bulgarian 12.33
11 Ukrainian 12.42
12 Polish 14.91
13 Southwest_Russian 15.72
14 West_German 15.75
15 Ukrainian_Belgorod 15.94
16 South_Dutch 17.2
17 Russian_Smolensk 17.24
18 Estonian_Polish 17.87
19 Belorussian 18.2
20 North_German 18.34

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 70.4% South_Polish + 29.6% Italian_Abruzzo @ 1.38
2 66.8% Serbian + 33.2% South_Polish @ 1.69
3 79.8% Serbian + 20.2% Estonian @ 1.77
4 73.2% Serbian + 26.8% Polish @ 1.88
5 79.7% Serbian + 20.3% Finnish @ 1.91
6 64% Polish + 36% Italian_Abruzzo @ 2.01
7 54.9% Estonian + 45.1% Italian_Abruzzo @ 2.03
8 76.2% Serbian + 23.8% Russian_Smolensk @ 2.04
9 53.4% Romanian + 46.6% South_Polish @ 2.05
10 60.7% Bulgarian + 39.3% Southwest_Finnish @ 2.07
11 81% Serbian + 19% Lithuanian @ 2.09
12 77.2% Serbian + 22.8% Belorussian @ 2.11
13 66.3% Romanian + 33.7% Southwest_Finnish @ 2.13
14 67.2% Serbian + 32.8% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 2.17
15 74.9% Serbian + 25.1% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.2
16 81.1% Serbian + 18.9% East_Finnish @ 2.21
17 78% Serbian + 22% Southwest_Finnish @ 2.22
18 74.5% South_Polish + 25.5% South_Italian @ 2.24
19 69.4% Romanian + 30.6% Estonian @ 2.25
20 77% Serbian + 23% Estonian_Polish @ 2.25
___________

Eurogenes K13 4-Ancestors Oracle
This program is based on 4-Ancestors Oracle Version 0.96 by Alexandr Burnashev.
Questions about results should be sent to him at: Alexandr.Burnashev@gmail.com
Original concept proposed by Sergey Kozlov.
Many thanks to Alexandr for helping us get this web version developed.

K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 31.94
2 North_Atlantic 28.72
3 West_Med 13.47
4 East_Med 12.28
5 West_Asian 9.51
6 Red_Sea 2.08
7 Siberian 1.31


Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Hungarian @ 4.963927
2 Moldavian @ 5.446011
3 Croatian @ 5.856634
4 Serbian @ 6.484164
5 Austrian @ 10.083335
6 Romanian @ 11.170863
7 East_German @ 11.218210
8 Ukrainian_Lviv @ 12.632668
9 South_Polish @ 12.686925
10 Bulgarian @ 14.110579
11 Ukrainian @ 14.117923
12 Polish @ 16.987316
13 Southwest_Russian @ 17.785322
14 West_German @ 18.033863
15 Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 18.051369
16 Russian_Smolensk @ 19.584724
17 South_Dutch @ 19.743536
18 Estonian_Polish @ 20.297169
19 Belorussian @ 20.651539
20 North_German @ 21.137312

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Romanian +50% South_Polish @ 2.368999


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Hungarian +25% Italian_Abruzzo +25% Lithuanian @ 1.602347

[ozarknation]

Here is my Eurogenes K13:

Population
North_Atlantic 19.97
Baltic 7.56
West_Med 17.63
West_Asian 2.81
East_Med 9.84
Red_Sea 3.16
South_Asian -
East_Asian -
Siberian 1.84
Amerindian 26.94
Oceanian -
Northeast_African 1.18
Sub-Saharan 9.08

[Vanillaskye]

Thanks for the input guys, I definitely have more digging to do, as I've been left with more questions than answers lol. By the way, this was my grandmother (one of very few pics we have from when she was young)



If you had to guess, what would you say she looked like ethnically?

[Selen]

You said she was Hungarian right? Huns like the Turks came from Asian steppes so she partly looks Asian because of that I think. Like some Turks also do.

[Vanillaskye]

Originally Posted by Selen

You said she was Hungarian right? Huns like the Turks came from Asian steppes so she partly looks Asian because of that I think. Like some Turks also do.

I thought the original Hungarians were Magyars, not Huns though?