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Old 07-18-2017, 05:16 PM
 
Location: colorado springs, CO
6,329 posts, read 2,867,143 times
Reputation: 19802

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Probably coincidental & random but I worked really hard on it & it turned up a potential heritage population that might solve a family mystery regarding two members uncompleted “deathbed confessions” so I’m super excited

(Both paternal Grandma & her sister said “I have to tell you something about our family …” the night before they died & never had the chance to say what it was)

I’ve written about the theory behind it here before but not the actual math because I’d be embarrassed if I made a mistake (I am hyperlexic & I transpose numbers; have to double & triple check everything).

I just wanted to figure out how I was born with Rh negative (O -) blood type to Rh positive parents: It is possible if you had a Rh negative grandparent on both your maternal & paternal side. But I didn’t. Sixteen first-cousins in my generation & I’m the only one who is Rh negative.

Most of the scientific research of the Rh factor started in the 1940’s. Positive is the dominant trait while negative is recessive & 85% of humans worldwide are positive.

During childbirth; when a Rh negative mother’s blood comes in contact with the Rh+ baby, her body would develop antibodies against Rh + blood. Until the late 1960’s, when a vaccine-like injection called Rhogam became available; the majority of Rh - women with Rh + partners would raise an “only child”. because subsequent Rh + siblings would likewise be exposed to mom’s blood during their birth & those antibodies would literally attack & kill that baby (called Hemolytic disease).

So; I experimented with an underwhelming formula using the family tree. Big drawback to this was that my mom was first gen American & the trail ran cold in the old country (Greece).

I had a whole three variables. 1. Was that ancestor an only child? If “no” that = 0%. “Yes” = 100%.

2. Geographical incidence of Rh negative blood type in that ancestor’s native country (using an Rh factor incidence map). For example: Sub-Saharan & East Asian incidence in between 0%-4%. Mediterranean’s are 5%-9% & Nordic’s are 15-19%.

(There are only 2 populations with a higher than 19% incidence of Rh - persons & those are the French Basque & Ashkenazi Jews. Neither of those groups were accounted for in our family.)

3. Ancestors chance of “giving me” my blood by probability of generation. For example; a parent would be assigned 50%. Grandparents got 25%, etc …

Then I couldn’t figure out what to do with the numbers so I just found the mean of each individual’s 3 variables & ranked the ancestors.

For example: Mom: only child? No = 0%. Geographical country of origin; Greece = 4%. Generation probability = 50%. Mom’s mean = 18.

Dad: only child? = 0% (no). Geographical = 19% (Ireland) Generation = 50%. Dad’s mean = 23. Dad “wins”; on to paternal grandparents. And so on.

Generation 3’s “winner” was my paternal grandmother (one of the attempted deathbed confessors) with a score of 14.6 & that led me to her mother. Generation 4’s winner; the only “only child” found, born in 1883 with 2 subsequent siblings who died in early infancy. Score = 43.8!

But she had 3 children that did not die within hours or days after birth; she was not my Rh negative donor, just a “carrier” of sorts. It had to be Generation 5’s winner: Her father; who fathered an only child & was also the only surviving child out of 3 siblings.

Problem: That’s generation 5. Mathematically speaking, there may be a small chance of my blood type coming from him but in the real world; dominant/recessive traits don’t work that way. And that probability gets cut in half anyway because I still need that allele from Mom’s side.

I needed a game changer; something so genetically strong it could trump 4 generations worth of dominant blood. So after all THAT it occurs to me to Google “surname + origin”.

And it comes up “Ashkenazi”.

Dad’s family has been in an uproar since this; especially my 86 yr old uncle who has published 1000+ pages of the family tree going back to the 1400’s; but never found it.

Since my formula was so simplistic, some of us are testing.

My DNA results are back & cross referenced via Gedmatch. I am 6.53% Ashkenazi.

Probably couldn’t duplicate these results in a million years with all the confounders (lack of maternal input, high infant mortality during some of those generations, etc) but I’m pretty elated at the moment!
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Old 07-18-2017, 05:34 PM
 
12,039 posts, read 17,072,342 times
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Well, I just started reading your post and "We are Jews" came to my mind right away.
Who else will hide their ethnicity for no apparent reason anymore?
That didn't require much research to figure.
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Old 07-18-2017, 05:56 PM
 
Location: Illinois
3,168 posts, read 4,463,875 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
Well, I just started reading your post and "We are Jews" came to my mind right away.
Who else will hide their ethnicity for no apparent reason anymore?
That didn't require much research to figure.
The chances that OP's family were Crypto-Jew are possible, but if this is the same person from the other thread with Rh- blood, that may not be the case nor the cause for the Rh- blood when even OP is saying none of his grandparents were Rh-.

I defer back to the other thread, both of OP's parents are +/- blood factors and each passed on the - to him/her. I know he states his grandparents are Rh+ but that does not negate the idea that they were +/- as opposed to +/+. In both instances, the parents and even grandparents will be considered Rh+. You are only Rh - when you are -/-.

Last edited by CMichele; 07-18-2017 at 06:05 PM..
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Old 07-18-2017, 06:15 PM
 
Location: Ozark Mountains
634 posts, read 537,540 times
Reputation: 787
I m 2% Askenazi as per Ancestry.Com and my blood type is "O" Rh Positive
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Old 07-18-2017, 06:22 PM
 
Location: Illinois
3,168 posts, read 4,463,875 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozarknation View Post
I m 2% Askenazi as per Ancestry.Com and my blood type is "O" Rh Positive
And to piggyback off this I have no AJ DNA and I am O-.
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Old 07-18-2017, 07:35 PM
 
Location: Ozark Mountains
634 posts, read 537,540 times
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As per FTDNA (they keep changing my results, not sure why), now I am 13% Middle Eastern and 2% Jewish.
European 46%
New World 28%
Middle Eastern 13%
African 8%
Jewish Diaspora 2%
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Old 07-19-2017, 12:28 AM
 
Location: colorado springs, CO
6,329 posts, read 2,867,143 times
Reputation: 19802
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMichele View Post
I know he states his grandparents are Rh+ but that does not negate the idea that they were +/- as opposed to +/+. In both instances, the parents and even grandparents will be considered Rh+. You are only Rh - when you are -/-.
Yes; this exactly. I believe both parents have to be +/- in order for me to born -/-, if they have been typed as positive. What has been difficult for me to figure out is if it's even possible for the last -/- ancestor to have been 5 generations back.

Several university websites offer blood typing calculators online but they only entertain at most, 3 generations. Since neither one of my parents were the last born (Dad was 4 out of 6 & mom was 1st out of 4) & they were both born in the 1940's (before Rhogam); I believe that all 4 grandparents were also +/-.

I used an Ashkenazi diaspora map from the 1800's to pinpoint pre-immigration locations & those also matched. The 2X great grandfather whom I suspected was 1st gen American born for that branch but his father had been educated at Heidelberg University just prior to immigrating in the early 1850's & was married in Brandenberg (Posen?) in the 1830's, although he had always stated that he immigrated from Switzerland.

The surname is Seeberger & it was the church records from Brandenberg/Posen that took my breath away: 3 pages worth of baptisms for infants with the surname of Seeberger, who also were recorded as having died on the same day.

I have read that in Germany, during this time, the Jewish were granted citizen rights as long as they were registered in a Lutheran church & this church were "Seeberger Sr." was married was a Lutheran church.

Oddly, one of Gedmatch's projects also noted French Basque but it does not show on 23 & Me.

My dad & I are thrilled with this finding as is my cousin who is the daughter of the elderly uncle who is published. She is also the family member who overheard the deathbed comments from my grandma's sister (our great aunt) & now she is getting tested. That makes 6 people from 3 generations of our family being tested; so if I'm the red herring I suppose we will know soon enough.
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Old 07-19-2017, 05:05 PM
 
Location: Colorado (PA at heart)
9,254 posts, read 14,293,224 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coschristi View Post
My DNA results are back & cross referenced via Gedmatch. I am 6.53% Ashkenazi.
Which calculator did you use? I have zero Jewish ancestry and don't have any Ashkenazi results from AncestryDNA, FTDNA, 23andMe, or MyHeritage, but Eurogene's Jtest gives me 5.17% Ashkenazi. I'm sorry, but this doesn't prove anything. Gedmatch's Jewish calculators are sort of heavy weighted or bias in turning up Jewish results. Plus, they are only estimates anyway and should not be taken too literally, especially at such small percentages. What company did you test with and did you get any Jewish results from them? Unless you're seeing consistent Jewish results from multiple companies, I would NOT assume it's a valid result.

Generic surname origins aren't necessarily accurate either, some surnames can have multiple origins.
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Old 07-19-2017, 06:24 PM
 
Location: Ozark Mountains
634 posts, read 537,540 times
Reputation: 787
Quote:
Originally Posted by PA2UK View Post
Which calculator did you use? I have zero Jewish ancestry and don't have any Ashkenazi results from AncestryDNA, FTDNA, 23andMe, or MyHeritage, but Eurogene's Jtest gives me 5.17% Ashkenazi. I'm sorry, but this doesn't prove anything. Gedmatch's Jewish calculators are sort of heavy weighted or bias in turning up Jewish results. Plus, they are only estimates anyway and should not be taken too literally, especially at such small percentages. What company did you test with and did you get any Jewish results from them? Unless you're seeing consistent Jewish results from multiple companies, I would NOT assume it's a valid result.

Generic surname origins aren't necessarily accurate either, some surnames can have multiple origins.
My tests still show some Askenazi
Here is my Eurogenes Jtest results: (now I look like an Euro-Asian as per this test...lol)

Population
SOUTH_BALTIC 5.57
EAST_EURO 9.82
NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 12.77
ATLANTIC 13.66
WEST_MED 10.20
ASHKENAZI 3.38
EAST_MED 6.82
WEST_ASIAN 2.98
MIDDLE_EASTERN 3.11
SOUTH_ASIAN 1.63
EAST_AFRICAN 3.65
EAST_ASIAN 5.84
SIBERIAN 13.56
WEST_AFRICAN 7.02
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Old 07-19-2017, 08:33 PM
 
14,252 posts, read 15,790,788 times
Reputation: 13704
Quote:
Originally Posted by PA2UK View Post
Which calculator did you use? I have zero Jewish ancestry and don't have any Ashkenazi results from AncestryDNA, FTDNA, 23andMe, or MyHeritage, but Eurogene's Jtest gives me 5.17% Ashkenazi. I'm sorry, but this doesn't prove anything. Gedmatch's Jewish calculators are sort of heavy weighted or bias in turning up Jewish results. Plus, they are only estimates anyway and should not be taken too literally, especially at such small percentages. What company did you test with and did you get any Jewish results from them? Unless you're seeing consistent Jewish results from multiple companies, I would NOT assume it's a valid result.

Generic surname origins aren't necessarily accurate either, some surnames can have multiple origins.
The Eurogene's Jtest has me as 15.44% Ashkenazi and Ancestry has me as 44% European Jewish. My father was Jewish. His family arrived from Lithuania around 1880. He died when I was 9. I found out he was Jewish when I was 30. Many of the WW2 generation were somewhat coy about their origins.
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