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Old 01-10-2018, 01:13 PM
 
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I started doing genealogy research 40+ years ago, long before the Internet and Ancestry online sites. 99.9% of my research was done from going to the NYC Public Library Genealogy Section looking through reels of Microfilm Census records, Vital Records and then sending for copies of Vital Records which I did not already have in my possession. Been to many a cemetery looking at tombstone, and asking the cemetery for their records. My Dad's side I have also written to England for Birth Certificates and Marriage Licenses.

I am getting back into this today for 2 reasons. First, my old desk top crashed 20 years ago with all my Family Tree Maker Software data. My husband copied it onto a CD which I downloaded onto a lap top years ago which also totally crashed about 5 years ago. He's tried to download it but isn't working. So I have started retyping all this from my printed copy and my handwritten notes to Ancestry. I have many generations back on my family and my husband's that I want to preserve for my children, grandchildren, cousins, and others. I do not want to let all those years of my physical research go down the drain.

Why now my Great-Grandma Domenica Lacico/Laccio/Laino? Her's is the only Italian line I have not researched, and because of my daughter's DNA results. Her largest percentage results were Italian ( from me) but she also got 4% Iberia. I have researched my husband's family, again "old fashioned" way, and his female ancestors (X Chromosomes) were all from Eastern Europe and Scandinavia, which were the second largest percentages my daughter got. My Grandma always told me that her family originally migrated from Spain to Italy but not as to WHO. The only possible person on my side is my Great-Grandma Domenica. BTW, I do have her death certificate. It does not list her maiden name or her parents; only that she was born in Italy.

The interesting part is that when I do a search on that "Laino" surname from Family Search records I not only come up with people from Italy but also from South America. My gut feeling is that Great-Grandma is where my daughter's Spanish DNA comes from. I have sent in my DNA to see what I get, but it hasn't come back yet. I don't like a genealogy mystery. I have to solve it.

Last edited by Jo48; 01-10-2018 at 02:33 PM..
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Old 01-10-2018, 03:28 PM
 
Location: Colorado (PA at heart)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
I started doing genealogy research 40+ years ago, long before the Internet and Ancestry online sites. 99.9% of my research was done from going to the NYC Public Library Genealogy Section looking through reels of Microfilm Census records, Vital Records and then sending for copies of Vital Records which I did not already have in my possession. Been to many a cemetery looking at tombstone, and asking the cemetery for their records. My Dad's side I have also written to England for Birth Certificates and Marriage Licenses.

I am getting back into this today for 2 reasons. First, my old desk top crashed 20 years ago with all my Family Tree Maker Software data. My husband copied it onto a CD which I downloaded onto a lap top years ago which also totally crashed about 5 years ago. He's tried to download it but isn't working. So I have started retyping all this from my printed copy and my handwritten notes to Ancestry. I have many generations back on my family and my husband's that I want to preserve for my children, grandchildren, cousins, and others. I do not want to let all those years of my physical research go down the drain.

Why now my Great-Grandma Domenica Lacico/Laccio/Laino? Her's is the only Italian line I have not researched, and because of my daughter's DNA results. Her largest percentage results were Italian ( from me) but she also got 4% Iberia. I have researched my husband's family, again "old fashioned" way, and his female ancestors (X Chromosomes) were all from Eastern Europe and Scandinavia, which were the second largest percentages my daughter got. My Grandma always told me that her family originally migrated from Spain to Italy but not as to WHO. The only possible person on my side is my Great-Grandma Domenica. BTW, I do have her death certificate. It does not list her maiden name or her parents; only that she was born in Italy.

The interesting part is that when I do a search on that "Laino" surname from Family Search records I not only come up with people from Italy but also from South America. My gut feeling is that Great-Grandma is where my daughter's Spanish DNA comes from. I have sent in my DNA to see what I get, but it hasn't come back yet. I don't like a genealogy mystery. I have to solve it.
I really wouldn't take the DNA ethnicity report that literally, especially with a percentage as low as 4%. The ethnicity reports are only estimates and it can be difficult, if not impossible, to tell neighboring regions apart sometimes. Don't let something like that lead you on a wild goose chase.
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Old 01-10-2018, 06:08 PM
 
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Originally Posted by PA2UK View Post
I really wouldn't take the DNA ethnicity report that literally, especially with a percentage as low as 4%. The ethnicity reports are only estimates and it can be difficult, if not impossible, to tell neighboring regions apart sometimes. Don't let something like that lead you on a wild goose chase.
That is precisely why I am having my own DNA done as her Mom. If that 4% is true for her, I should get a greater percentage since I do not have my daughter's father's DNA added to it. We will see.

Family stories from my Grandma, and her Mom who lived with us when I was a child, have proven true with research. So I believe there must be a grain of truth to that Spanish origin. Grandma told me that her MIL, who I am now trying to research, "went crazy and was committed to a mental institution because the family could not take care of her". That story was confirmed with her Death Certificate. She died at a State Mental Institution on Wards Island, NYC, and the cause of death was listed as due to "Senility". My guess from that was that she had Dementia in terms of today's medical terms. I suppose that was my main reason in the past for not wanting to research her. What would I get if I did one of those Medical DNA tests? Maybe I don't want to know that.

If I come up with 0% Iberia, that should be enough to disprove my daughter's results.
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Old 01-10-2018, 11:30 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
No. I am almost 70 and lived the patterns. There were Italian neighborhoods (Little Italy). My Italian Grandparents lived in that parish and were married in the local Catholic Church (Our Lady of Pompeii). My Mom was baptized and married there. I went there a few times as a child to one of their Italian spoken Masses.

My Dad was from an Irish neighborhood and his parents were married in the local Irish neighborhood Church (St. Joseph). Dad went to their parish school. I was baptized in Dad's parish church and went to their Catholic School. I was married in that church also despite then living in a different borough. My family, and me, had a family history with that church so they said I could be married there.
So you can get the address of the church and write them. Churches are usually helpful if you provide a donation - Or even if you don't. Maybe they know relatives that still go to these churches or know of a family plot so you can see the graves.

That's the reason I asked about their religion. It's a start to contact the church - Baptisms, confirmations, marriages, just about everything important may be recorded at the church. Especially in New York.

You might be able to find cousins, family friends that may know stories of your line. I don't know if you live there and can visit.
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Old 01-11-2018, 11:44 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
Trying to trace her family back to Italy. Mom told me her Grandma's maiden name was spelled Lacico. She was born in Italy but married in NYC and all her children were born there too.
Ancestry comes up with no information at all, other than Census Records with Great-Grandpa's surname, her first name, and their children. Nothing else. My Grandpa's Italian Surname spelling isn't the problem.

I get more hits on her with Family Search which brings up birth records on all their children. They list her as their Mother but her Maiden name is not even close. All records show her Maiden name as Laino for all her children. The source sited is NYC Birth Records Index with Film Numbers Listed. No image available. Subject to the interpretation of whoever copied the film records?

I have my Grandparent's Original Church Marriage Certificate from 1918 written in cursive in Italian. It clearly says Great-Grandma's Maiden name was Lacico. However, their female Witness was a Maria Laccio. Very close spellings. Generally speaking, Witnesses to a Marriage (Maid of Honor/Best Man) were family members or very close friends. If I do a general search, I get far more "hits" with Laccio than Lacico. Priest made the error?

I do not know where to go from here? Fork out a lot of money and write to NYC Vital Records for either my Grandpa's Birth Certificate or Grandparents Civil Marriage License?
You might also see if she applied for citizenship as information should be listed there as well.
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Old 01-11-2018, 12:08 PM
 
Location: Colorado (PA at heart)
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You might also see if she applied for citizenship as information should be listed there as well.
Sadly, a woman's citizenship status for much of history was dependent on her husband's. Generally, if her husband naturalized, her citizenship came along with it. I would still look into his naturalization though, if he did naturalize, because it will likely list his wife and possibly even where in Italy she was born (not always though, unfortunately).
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Old 01-12-2018, 11:51 AM
 
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I have found a lot of information on my Great-Grandpa, including his exact date of birth and immigration date, from Death Certificate, Tombstone, Naturalization, and a Petition for a Passport years late back to the place of his birth. I have not found any Naturalization records for my Great-Grandma with her married name.

All information I have on her is that she immigrated in 1879 at 14, the same year as Great-Grandpa. Odd. I have tried searching for her through him. His records on Family Search indicate their first child, who did not survive, was in 1883 in NY when she would have been 18. Ten year difference in their ages. According to the 1910 census she had 10 children only 3 Living. Seven children not surviving until 1910 is a lot. How old was she when she married? That makes we wonder, even having children every 2 years. I would love to know when they married and where. Older Census records do not ask how long married couples have been married. That would be a start. I am beginning to suspect she was very, very young when she married.

I found my Great-Grandpa's Passenger Ship Record. Looked at actual copy of the Passenger Manifest. Three names down was an 18 year old Antonio LANIO? Very legible. Her brother? Certainly, young men could and did immigrate alone. Makes me wonder if either they knew each other or made friends on ship? There are over 1,000 passengers on that ship and no index to it.

My gut is telling me that her Maiden Name was Lanio and that the recordings of Family Search are right.
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Old 01-12-2018, 11:59 AM
 
7,144 posts, read 3,974,241 times
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Originally Posted by PA2UK View Post
Sadly, a woman's citizenship status for much of history was dependent on her husband's. Generally, if her husband naturalized, her citizenship came along with it. I would still look into his naturalization though, if he did naturalize, because it will likely list his wife and possibly even where in Italy she was born (not always though, unfortunately).
No, his Naturalization did not include his wife. Since back in those days women did not have the right to vote with citizenship, most probably didn't become citizens. Depends on the family and their outlook on women. My Grandma marched for the right of women to vote. Her Immigrant Mother used both her Maiden and Married names always in all official documents. She became a citizen when she reached adulthood.
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Old 01-13-2018, 08:03 AM
 
Location: Colorado (PA at heart)
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Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
No, his Naturalization did not include his wife. Since back in those days women did not have the right to vote with citizenship, most probably didn't become citizens. Depends on the family and their outlook on women. My Grandma marched for the right of women to vote. Her Immigrant Mother used both her Maiden and Married names always in all official documents. She became a citizen when she reached adulthood.
Obviously, it depends on the time period, but there was a time when women did indeed become automatically naturalized when her husband did, just like their children did. It may not mention it on the records, but that's what happened. It wasn't a choice on her part, there was no box to tick, etc - it just came along with his by law. In fact, there was a time when an American woman by birth married a foreigner, she would lose her citizenship and would have to re-apply for citizenship if she wanted it back. And again, if her husband naturalized, then her citizenship would automatically return when he did.

It's true that single/divorced/widowed women had little reason to naturalize on their own because they couldn't vote up to a point in history, but that doesn't mean married women weren't automatically naturalized along with her husband.

https://www.archives.gov/publication...ization-1.html

"New laws of the mid-1800s opened an era when a woman's ability to naturalize became dependent upon her marital status. The act of February 10, 1855, was designed to benefit immigrant women. Under that act, "[a]ny woman who is now or may hereafter be married to a citizen of the United States, and who might herself be lawfully naturalized, shall be deemed a citizen." Thus alien women generally became U.S. citizens by marriage to a U.S. citizen or through an alien husband's naturalization. [...] While one will find some courts that naturalized the wives of aliens, until 1922 the courts generally held that the alien wife of an alien husband could not herself be naturalized.(3) In innumerable cases under the 1855 law, an immigrant woman instantly became a U.S. citizen at the moment a judge's order naturalized her immigrant husband. If her husband naturalized prior to September 27, 1906, the woman may or may not be mentioned on the record which actually granted her citizenship. Her only proof of U.S. citizenship would be a combination of the marriage certificate and her husband's naturalization record. Prior to 1922, this provision applied to women regardless of their place of residence. Thus if a woman's husband left their home abroad to seek work in America, became a naturalized citizen, then sent for her to join him, that woman might enter the United States for the first time listed as a U.S. citizen.(4)"

So, as you can see, just because his naturalization papers don't expressly say his wife was naturalized too doesn't mean she wasn't.

If he naturalized early on though, earlier records are less likely to include family details so maybe this was the case for him? I don't think you mentioned when he was naturalized.
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