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Old 03-21-2018, 08:49 PM
 
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Hey everyone, so I've been very interested in my ancestry for a while now but I kinda feel like I've hit a brick wall of sorts. So I took an Ancestry DNA test a little while back and received my results, and as usual I saw some things that I kinda suspected but wasn't totally sure of and also saw some things that were a shock to me. One thing that I looked forward to seeing was what Genetic Communities that I would be assigned to. So my mother is from Maryland but some of my ancestry goes back to Virginia, my father was born in Trinidad and my grandparents were also born there as well. So I was assigned "Virginia & Southern States African Americans", but the shock to me was that it didn't say anything about "African Caribbeans". I wasn't raised by my father so I don't have any further info about my background on that side of the family.

So this raises two questions in my mind that I hope you guys can answer for me. 1, are there any resources that I can use to find out about my Caribbean ancestors since I can't find anything on Ancestry (it seems like it's hard to retrieve records from that region)? And 2, is it possible that my roots in Trinidad aren't as deep as I thought and that my ancestors possibly lived in a region that isn't yet covered in the Genetic Communities (Trinidad is right off the coast of South America and I don't think that they're any Genetic Communities for African descendants on that continent)? It's also possible that not enough people that are genetically similar to my paternal family took the test to be connected to that Genetic Community, but I find that unlikely. I could be wrong though so I'm open to all responses .
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Old 03-22-2018, 06:19 AM
 
Location: Ozark Mountains
634 posts, read 537,540 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don16 View Post
Hey everyone, so I've been very interested in my ancestry for a while now but I kinda feel like I've hit a brick wall of sorts. So I took an Ancestry DNA test a little while back and received my results, and as usual I saw some things that I kinda suspected but wasn't totally sure of and also saw some things that were a shock to me. One thing that I looked forward to seeing was what Genetic Communities that I would be assigned to. So my mother is from Maryland but some of my ancestry goes back to Virginia, my father was born in Trinidad and my grandparents were also born there as well. So I was assigned "Virginia & Southern States African Americans", but the shock to me was that it didn't say anything about "African Caribbeans". I wasn't raised by my father so I don't have any further info about my background on that side of the family.

So this raises two questions in my mind that I hope you guys can answer for me. 1, are there any resources that I can use to find out about my Caribbean ancestors since I can't find anything on Ancestry (it seems like it's hard to retrieve records from that region)? And 2, is it possible that my roots in Trinidad aren't as deep as I thought and that my ancestors possibly lived in a region that isn't yet covered in the Genetic Communities (Trinidad is right off the coast of South America and I don't think that they're any Genetic Communities for African descendants on that continent)? It's also possible that not enough people that are genetically similar to my paternal family took the test to be connected to that Genetic Community, but I find that unlikely. I could be wrong though so I'm open to all responses .
I think Trinidad is a small country and there are few members from Trinidad at Ancestry, so there is not too much information in order to build a Data Base for the Trinitarian Community.
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Old 03-22-2018, 07:42 AM
 
Location: NJ
12,558 posts, read 22,530,117 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don16 View Post
Hey everyone, so I've been very interested in my ancestry for a while now but I kinda feel like I've hit a brick wall of sorts. So I took an Ancestry DNA test a little while back and received my results, and as usual I saw some things that I kinda suspected but wasn't totally sure of and also saw some things that were a shock to me. One thing that I looked forward to seeing was what Genetic Communities that I would be assigned to. So my mother is from Maryland but some of my ancestry goes back to Virginia, my father was born in Trinidad and my grandparents were also born there as well. So I was assigned "Virginia & Southern States African Americans", but the shock to me was that it didn't say anything about "African Caribbeans". I wasn't raised by my father so I don't have any further info about my background on that side of the family.

So this raises two questions in my mind that I hope you guys can answer for me. 1, are there any resources that I can use to find out about my Caribbean ancestors since I can't find anything on Ancestry (it seems like it's hard to retrieve records from that region)? And 2, is it possible that my roots in Trinidad aren't as deep as I thought and that my ancestors possibly lived in a region that isn't yet covered in the Genetic Communities (Trinidad is right off the coast of South America and I don't think that they're any Genetic Communities for African descendants on that continent)? It's also possible that not enough people that are genetically similar to my paternal family took the test to be connected to that Genetic Community, but I find that unlikely. I could be wrong though so I'm open to all responses .
The best place to start is by backing up your ancestry DNA raw data to upload to the free databases, My Heritage, GEDmatch and GEDmatch Genesis for free ethnicity and family matching. My Heritage also gives chromosome browser free and FTDNA for free family matching. See my thread //www.city-data.com/forum/genea...l#post49250127

See what kind of matches that gives you, from there you can look for FB groups that deal with each country or ethnicity. I'm in Hungarian, Scottish, Irish and England FB groups.They have something called a GEDmatch match maker tool that you need a computer to do. It will tell you the GEDmatch and Genesis matches you have in the group. It's pretty cool.

Last edited by Roselvr; 03-22-2018 at 07:53 AM..
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Old 03-22-2018, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Colorado (PA at heart)
9,254 posts, read 14,293,224 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don16 View Post
Hey everyone, so I've been very interested in my ancestry for a while now but I kinda feel like I've hit a brick wall of sorts. So I took an Ancestry DNA test a little while back and received my results, and as usual I saw some things that I kinda suspected but wasn't totally sure of and also saw some things that were a shock to me. One thing that I looked forward to seeing was what Genetic Communities that I would be assigned to. So my mother is from Maryland but some of my ancestry goes back to Virginia, my father was born in Trinidad and my grandparents were also born there as well. So I was assigned "Virginia & Southern States African Americans", but the shock to me was that it didn't say anything about "African Caribbeans". I wasn't raised by my father so I don't have any further info about my background on that side of the family.

So this raises two questions in my mind that I hope you guys can answer for me. 1, are there any resources that I can use to find out about my Caribbean ancestors since I can't find anything on Ancestry (it seems like it's hard to retrieve records from that region)? And 2, is it possible that my roots in Trinidad aren't as deep as I thought and that my ancestors possibly lived in a region that isn't yet covered in the Genetic Communities (Trinidad is right off the coast of South America and I don't think that they're any Genetic Communities for African descendants on that continent)? It's also possible that not enough people that are genetically similar to my paternal family took the test to be connected to that Genetic Community, but I find that unlikely. I could be wrong though so I'm open to all responses .
1. I don't know much about Caribbean research, but if you can't find anything online, you will likely have to write letters to the town hall or churches where they lived in Trinidad and ask for copies of records to be mailed back to you. If you're really serious about it, consider making a trip there in person.

2. Yes, if you don't know anything about your great grandparents or beyond, it's possible they weren't from Trinidad/the Caribbean. But it is also possible, and perhaps more likely that Trinidadians may not be well represented in the GC for African Caribbeans.
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Old 03-22-2018, 02:00 PM
 
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There were actually some black Americans who were resettled in Trinidad and Tobago, I recently read an article about an old strain of rice found there that some black Americans who fought with the British during the War of 1812 who were resettled in Trinidad and Tobago and brought with them a strain of rice that is connected to a strain that Thomas Jefferson had. See link below.

I'll also note that I believe that all black people it seems that have tested with ancestry are put into a southern "Genetic Community" if you put your place of birth as American. Even people in groups I am members of who have 2 AFrican born parents show a genetic community from some southern state it seems.

Your best bet for actual research IMO would be to look for some Facebook groups that focus on Caribbean/West Indian genealogy. I am a member of some black/African American FB groups and many of the member I interact with have West Indian roots and write blogs and know of other sites/methods for research. I can ask them for you - send me a message if you're interested.

My own family has very deep Pennsylvania roots on my maternal side and many of the slaves in Pennsylvania during the 17th and 18th century were brought to PA from the Caribbean. I've discovered a distant ancestor whose place of birth on his 1853 death record (PA only kept death records between 1852-1854 during the 19th century on a state level so I was very fortunate to find this) said that he was born in Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic! He was born in approximately 1780 so even if born enslaved would have been freed by his 21st birthday. I was shocked to discover this but have reviewed a lot of sources and historical material from PA that indicate that a large amount of the slaves in PA that were gradually emancipated starting in 1780 came to PA from the West Indies. I had no genetic markers either from the Caribbean, but mine are very far removed than your own. I also had no markers for Mid-Atlantic states even though 3/4 (or more really) of my mother's ancestors were from that area. Seems like all us black people are lumped into a particular category IMO. But honestly I didn't even notice this about the genetic communities until someone brought it up to me in a group. I never paid it that much attention since IMO ancestry's view of migration is not all that important.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2017/05/10/527449714/a-lost-rice-variety-and-the-story-of-the-freed-merikins-who-kept-it-alive


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Old 03-22-2018, 02:08 PM
 
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Wanted to add that the "Merikins" of Trinidad and Tobago were initially residents of the SC sea islands and those communities have the highest concentration of African genetic markers of blacks in America. We discussed this a lot in a FB group I'm in - the genetic communities and those in our group who have 98-100% of their genetic markers from African nations all of them are from "low country SC." We also have some members who have a parent who is actually from a country in Africa, yet their "genetic community" also was just about the US south, which made most of us, including myself believe that ancestry just lumps all black Americans into those groups based on genetic material shared with other black people in those states.

I also am a part of the "Virginia & Southern States African Americans." I do have some ancestry in Virginia on my dad's side but most of my dad's ancestry is from the Carolinas and the other 1/4 of my mother's ancestry is also from the Carolinas (mom is NC and dad is SC). So I was surprised I didn't have a Carolina connection but I didn't. However, most black people with long roots in the south had some ancestors who long long ago lived in VA so I can accept the VA community as most of my dad's and the non-PA of my mom's side all lead to VA.
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Old 03-27-2018, 12:26 PM
 
453 posts, read 186,828 times
Reputation: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007 View Post
There were actually some black Americans who were resettled in Trinidad and Tobago, I recently read an article about an old strain of rice found there that some black Americans who fought with the British during the War of 1812 who were resettled in Trinidad and Tobago and brought with them a strain of rice that is connected to a strain that Thomas Jefferson had. See link below.

I'll also note that I believe that all black people it seems that have tested with ancestry are put into a southern "Genetic Community" if you put your place of birth as American. Even people in groups I am members of who have 2 AFrican born parents show a genetic community from some southern state it seems.

Your best bet for actual research IMO would be to look for some Facebook groups that focus on Caribbean/West Indian genealogy. I am a member of some black/African American FB groups and many of the member I interact with have West Indian roots and write blogs and know of other sites/methods for research. I can ask them for you - send me a message if you're interested.

My own family has very deep Pennsylvania roots on my maternal side and many of the slaves in Pennsylvania during the 17th and 18th century were brought to PA from the Caribbean. I've discovered a distant ancestor whose place of birth on his 1853 death record (PA only kept death records between 1852-1854 during the 19th century on a state level so I was very fortunate to find this) said that he was born in Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic! He was born in approximately 1780 so even if born enslaved would have been freed by his 21st birthday. I was shocked to discover this but have reviewed a lot of sources and historical material from PA that indicate that a large amount of the slaves in PA that were gradually emancipated starting in 1780 came to PA from the West Indies. I had no genetic markers either from the Caribbean, but mine are very far removed than your own. I also had no markers for Mid-Atlantic states even though 3/4 (or more really) of my mother's ancestors were from that area. Seems like all us black people are lumped into a particular category IMO. But honestly I didn't even notice this about the genetic communities until someone brought it up to me in a group. I never paid it that much attention since IMO ancestry's view of migration is not all that important.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2017/05/10/527449714/a-lost-rice-variety-and-the-story-of-the-freed-merikins-who-kept-it-alive



MAYBE YOU ARE APPROACHING THIS THING WRONG. about 6-8 thousand Free blacks were sent from the Pennsylvania area to the Dominican republic around 1820s (look for the Samana blacks) their descendants are still there and speak English.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saman%C3%A1_Americans



"The result was successful, as more than 6,000 of emigrants responding in less than a year. After that, however, the settlements met with multiple problems and many returned. However, many stayed and among those who stayed." Maybe that person was born in DR and his family returned to the US.

Last edited by upthere22; 03-27-2018 at 12:37 PM..
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Old 03-28-2018, 07:12 AM
 
16,206 posts, read 8,481,947 times
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Originally Posted by upthere22 View Post
MAYBE YOU ARE APPROACHING THIS THING WRONG. about 6-8 thousand Free blacks were sent from the Pennsylvania area to the Dominican republic around 1820s (look for the Samana blacks) their descendants are still there and speak English.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saman%C3%A1_Americans



"The result was successful, as more than 6,000 of emigrants responding in less than a year. After that, however, the settlements met with multiple problems and many returned. However, many stayed and among those who stayed." Maybe that person was born in DR and his family returned to the US.
I doubt it. I have a lot of source material by historians and genealogists who specifically focus on the black population from Pennsylvania who've researched the colonial era in the state who have definitive proof via the paper trail that blacks were imported from the Caribbean in PA to be slaves. This the same in SC and various other southern states. If my ancestor was born approximately 1775-1780 in the DR he could not have been included in the population you site in your wiki link since they immigrated to DR (and other Caribbean islands) in the 1820s.

Note, I have some maternal/paternal/maternal (grandfather's maternal line) ancestors who actually did immigrate to Haiti after 1820. They came back to the US after the Civil War but some of their descendants stayed in Haiti.

So MAYBE I KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT lol in regards to the upper case/yelling. I think it's interesting that you'd think I don't know what I'm talking about in regards to my own ancestors. Are you black and do you have ancestors who immigrated to Haiti and who were "free" people in PA after 1780. If not, then I doubt you know what you are talking about. Note this paragraph is not meant to be smart mouthed but don't assume that because I'm black and mentioned something in regards to slavery in PA and the Caribbean that I don't know about what I'm stating. Ask me for sources and I'll share some books and authors with you. A good one to review is by a black American historian of PA named George Nagle who used to write a blog about the black history of PA. He published a book about 7-10 years ago called "The Year of Jubilee: Men of God" which is a history of the black community of Harrisburg and PA in general. A large amount of my maternal ancestors were from Dauphin County/Harrisburg, PA so I purchased the book and have it in my personal library along with another one by some white American authors called "Hinsonville, a Community at the Crossroads: The Story of a 19th Century African American Village" by Paul and Marianne Russo. It is about the village referenced being one of the first all black communities in PA. Some of my maternal ancestors were founding community members of Hinsonville. The person I mentioned who was born in the DR - his daughter and her husband were some of the founding community members of Hinsonville so I also have this book in my personal library. Don't depend on wikipedia for sources. It is very lacking. Also don't assume or yell at people that they don't know what they are talking about because they may know more about said subject than yourself since they don't rely on wikipedia for source material.

ETA: The books cited above have a WEALTH of source material and even include transcriptions of historically archived documents for the community of Hinsonville in Chester County, PA along with PA archival material in regards to the history of Dauphin County and Harrisburg. They are footnoted, which allowed me to review the sources that they cite, something that wikipedia doesn't do in depth like these texts do. Not sure why you'd think someone born in the late 18th century was born after 1820 in the DR. Very strange post IMO. If you want to know more about the black history of PA and where slaves came from in PA during the 1700s, then you can review especially the book by Nagle as he goes in depth and provides a ton of sources about the fact that slaves in PA were brought either directly from Africa or the Carribbean in later years because those slaves had arleady been acclimated to being slaves or "seasoned/trained." Something, which for me and others, is a pretty sickening thing to think about, but it is historically relevant in discussions about slavery. The history of slavery varies based on the area/state where it occurred in the USA and in PA what I stated above is correct and is backed by archival documents. Note, I have no gripes about slavery and am very grateful that documents were kept in PA and other states as a genealogical researcher because they are very helpful for me in documenting the genealogy and family history of my own ancestors. It also make me very grateful to live in the era that I live in.

Last edited by residinghere2007; 03-28-2018 at 07:30 AM..
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Old 03-28-2018, 07:36 AM
 
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Will also note that the black people who went to the Caribbean as "emigrants" were not "sent" there. They volunteered to go there and were not forced to do so (unless it was a condition of their emancipation in the case of slaves - some slave owners stated that the slaves had to leave America as a condition of freedom and they would pay to transport them). Free blacks often felt that they would never be full citizens of the USA due to intense racism in the USA against black people. This was especially the case after the passage of the Fugitive Slave Law of 1850 which caused black people to be be kidnapped and sold into slavery in PA and other states around the country with no legal recourse along with the Dred Scott decision, where the SCOTUS stated that black people could not be citizens of the USA (this was the reason the 14th amendment had to be passed). The history around black emigration to the Caribbean, Canada, and Liberia is a VERY interesting part of American history that is often glossed over like your wiki article did. Some of my ancestors went to all three areas cited above. It has been fascinating reading about the internal debate amongst black Americans in the 19th century in regards to the reasons "for" or "against" emigration away from America.

Frederick Douglass cited in your wiki link was actually against emigration away from America. There were huge debates on the subject at "Colored Conventions" which were often held by free blacks in America in the 19th century to discuss activism and issues of the day and their goals/plans on various subjects.
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Old 03-28-2018, 08:11 AM
 
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This is the thing that theory is very unlikely as during the 1700 DR had a very low population (less then 50K) I doubt that slave commerce was a thing at that point as the Spanish side of the island was basically empty. for example" The population of Santo Domingo (the whole county) was about 6,000 in 1737. for most of the 1700s Spain and Britain were at war, so no commerce was allowed, the probabilities that large amounts of slaves made it to the US from DR is slim. you might be confusing santo dominigo (spanish) with san Domingue (french). San domingue was the name of the french colony in Haiti, that had half a million slaves and was a very active slave port, not Santo domingo (the spanish colony) that was small, under populated and poor.

I Doubt the documents you cite say santo domingo Dominican republic as the DR didnt existed until 1844. San domingue is today's Haiti not DR, despite the fact that the capital of DR is called santo domingo.

Even though DR had slaves by the 1700 the economy of the Spanish side was based on ranching and didnt have an extensive plantation economy as Cuba or Haiti.


saint domingue (french) was the largest slave port in the Caribbean and the richest slave colony. i think this is were your mistake is.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint-Domingue


"In the 19th and early 20th centuries, American and British authors often referred to Saint-Domingue period as "Santo Domingo" or "San Domingo."[7]:2 This led to confusion with the earlier Spanish colony, and later the contemporary Spanish colony established at Santo Domingo during the colonial period; in particular, in political debates on slavery previous to the American Civil War, "San Domingo" was used to express fears of Southern whites of a slave rebellion breaking out in their own region. Today, the former Spanish possession contemporary with the early period of the French colony corresponds mostly with the Dominican Republic, whose capital is Santo Domingo. The name of Saint-Domingue was changed to Hayti (Haïti) when Jean-Jacques Dessalines declared the independence of all Hispaniola from the French in 1804.[29] Like the name Haiti itself, Saint-Domingue may be used to refer to all of Hispaniola, or the western part in the French colonial period, while the Spanish version Hispaniola or Santo Domingo is often used to refer to the Spanish colonial period or the Dominican nation."

the common name for Haiti in english during the 1700s was "San Domingo" as a miss translation of saint domingue. It is confusing but the chances those documents refer to DR are close to nill.

Last edited by upthere22; 03-28-2018 at 09:08 AM..
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