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Old 04-10-2018, 09:20 AM
 
Location: Florida
4,711 posts, read 4,208,954 times
Reputation: 10428

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyanna View Post
Let's get THIS straight... a DIGITAL COPY, is defined as any SCANNED image of an invoice, document, receipt or other paper record that is then stored electronically. Also known as a soft copy.

A gedcom is a DATA FILE, and had the OP said this in the first place we all would have known what they were talking about.

Still doesn't negate the fact that asking someone for ALL their data is rude.



I said I was new at this. My pardon for not knowing the term 'gedcom'.




And as I was asking for advice about approaching this woman I was interested in opinions about whether or not to do it, as I did feel it was disrespectful.


Thankfully, you clearly know about being 'rude'.
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Old 04-10-2018, 10:00 AM
 
Location: Dalton Gardens
2,812 posts, read 5,715,819 times
Reputation: 1634
Quote:
Originally Posted by kab0906 View Post



I said I was new at this. My pardon for not knowing the term 'gedcom'.




And as I was asking for advice about approaching this woman I was interested in opinions about whether or not to do it, as I did feel it was disrespectful.


Thankfully, you clearly know about being 'rude'.
That comment clarifying what a digital copy is was directed at the poster who was rude when trying to "educate" everyone about what you were actually looking for. It was not directed at you.

My honest answer was not rude, it was based on personal experience, and many years of working in genealogy, family history and research. As someone who admits to being new and experienced you need to understand that those of us who are "old timers" at this have gone through years of others stealing our data, never giving due credit, or wanting everything we have without offering something in return because they can't be bothered to do the research themselves. We call them "Instant Tree Growers." Many of us have had "cousins" come out of the woodwork who have offered to share what they have, and once they got what they wanted we've never received anything or heard from them again.

When it comes to sharing, I have also spent years offering research, for FREE, after being paid for a number of years to do this professionally. I made good money at it, but the joy was taken away from doing it for money. I ran the largest New Jersey genealogy website on the internet, with so much primary source data that Ancestry tried to buy it from me. It costs me thousands of $$$ to run this, out of my own pocket, and the only thing I asked was that members donate a measly $5 a year to help out if they could. Sadly, new members came in who wanted to take everything they could, never shared anything, and balked at $5 a year. After running it for 15 years I shut it down.

I freely volunteer hundreds of hours of my time and efforts to help people find their birth families, for the sheer joy of helping.

So, instead of taking advice or comments as "rude" use it as a learning experience to help you further in your research.
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Old 04-10-2018, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Dalton Gardens
2,812 posts, read 5,715,819 times
Reputation: 1634
With no offense intended by the title of this book, I recommend it for those who are new to genealogy. Start at page 148, at the bottom to page 151.

https://books.google.com/books?id=vNMb_dZSOjEC&pg=PA140&lpg=PA140&dq=don%27 t+ask+a+genealogist+for+all+their+information&sour ce=bl&ots=484gvCkwv8&sig=YA-L9m_vf8yoarvkoI_WQOVWPoE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiYq paxkbDaAhUL1oMKHQCQDog4FBDoAQhbMAk#v=onepage&q=don 't%20ask%20a%20genealogist%20for%20all%20their%20i nformation&f=false
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Old 04-10-2018, 11:26 AM
 
Location: The High Desert
8,132 posts, read 4,434,348 times
Reputation: 15377
At the age of 80, I think it would be appropriate to inquire to see if there are heirs or family members who would carry on the task of maintaining the family history. The lady might be worried that no one will bother or take enough interest to keep the collection intact. Given the amount of information OP already has, she can probably figure out if there are any heirs. The old lady might already be deceased (or past caring) since the OP or her husband have no apparent contact and never met her. A short letter of introduction (how related, etc.) expressing an appreciation of the work she has done and interest (and capability) to collaborate or take on the burden of research would probably be OK. I might send it to family heirs with a cover note as well. Maybe nothing will come out of the effort but OP will not be in any worse shape than she is now. I have not had much success with "cold" contact letters in the past.
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Old 04-11-2018, 08:18 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
18,236 posts, read 18,824,322 times
Reputation: 45444
Quote:
Originally Posted by brownbagg View Post
My mom had a copy of her tree back to 1400, family bible deal so it had everybody, I ask number of times if I could get a copy. When she died my brother threw everything away that wasn't cold green and spendable. I don't even know my grandfather name
I am shocked at how often things like that happen. I've had a number of friends who were doing genealogical work and when they contacted their aunts/uncles/cousins asking about things like old photographs, family documents, family bibles, they were told things like "We just threw everything in a dumpster when Grandma died" or "No one wanted Great Aunt Sally's old photo albums so we threw in the incinerator" etc. etc.
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Old 04-11-2018, 08:47 AM
 
Location: NJ
12,535 posts, read 22,519,049 times
Reputation: 11472
Quote:
Originally Posted by kab0906 View Post
Exactly.


I don't know why everyone is debating the format. It looks very similar to what I have attached here.
Keep in mind that all of her research could be wrong if someone lied about paternity or never told anyone they adopted a child. Has your hub you done DNA?
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Old 04-11-2018, 09:29 AM
 
Location: Dalton Gardens
2,812 posts, read 5,715,819 times
Reputation: 1634
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roselvr View Post
Keep in mind that all of her research could be wrong if someone lied about paternity or never told anyone they adopted a child. Has your hub you done DNA?
Great points and very true! Often those from an earlier generation hide a lot of "family skeletons," and then we stumble across the truth. My grandmother never told me that her grandmother ran a "house of ill-repute" and also had an interesting arrest record. What shocked and embarrassed them tends to fascinate or amuse us.
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Old 04-13-2018, 06:10 PM
 
9,285 posts, read 5,512,691 times
Reputation: 9542
And as I was asking for advice about approaching this woman I was interested in opinions about whether or not to do it, as I did feel it was disrespectful.

if this person was the only one that had the info, why would it matter, without asking it be gone forever.

so take the chance
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Old 04-13-2018, 07:23 PM
 
Location: Colorado (PA at heart)
9,254 posts, read 14,288,445 times
Reputation: 12070
Quote:
Originally Posted by historyfan View Post
This can be a sticky wicket.

If her work product is well-researched and referenced, she should copyright it --- because she is the author, just as any history book writer is the author. You need consider whether you would think it appropriate to ask an author, you don't personally know, for a free copy of her work.

Then again if her work is "cut & paste" based on family lore, it could just be interesting mythology which may or may not check out as fact.
Firstly, you can't copyright research because research is simply the study of factual information and factual information can't be copyrighted, nor can documents like vital records. History books are copyrighted because the original writing is copyrighted. You can't copy the writing word for word (except in fair use portions/quotes), but you can copy the facts from a history book and rewrite them in your own words, and that does not violate copyright. So only if she has written her family history in her own unique words would copying it word for word be a violation of copyright. A family tree, when it is simply a collection of facts not expressed in a unique way, can not be copyrighted.

Secondly, as was mentioned earlier, you do not need to do anything to copyright something. The moment an original work is created, it is copyrighted.

These are US laws, but generally most countries follow the same principles.

https://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/

"What is copyright?
Copyright is a form of protection grounded in the U.S. Constitution and granted by law for original works of authorship fixed in a tangible medium of expression. Copyright covers both published and unpublished works.

What does copyright protect?
Copyright, a form of intellectual property law, protects original works of authorship including literary, dramatic, musical, and artistic works, such as poetry, novels, movies, songs, computer software, and architecture. Copyright does not protect facts, ideas, systems, or methods of operation, although it may protect the way these things are expressed. See Circular 1, Copyright Basics, section "What Works Are Protected."

When is my work protected?
Your work is under copyright protection the moment it is created and fixed in a tangible form that it is perceptible either directly or with the aid of a machine or device.

Do I have to register with your office to be protected?
No. In general, registration is voluntary. Copyright exists from the moment the work is created. You will have to register, however, if you wish to bring a lawsuit for infringement of a U.S. work. See Circular 1, Copyright Basics, section “Copyright Registration.”"
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Old 04-14-2018, 06:49 AM
 
3,967 posts, read 3,461,766 times
Reputation: 12261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyanna View Post
Great points and very true! Often those from an earlier generation hide a lot of "family skeletons," and then we stumble across the truth. My grandmother never told me that her grandmother ran a "house of ill-repute" and also had an interesting arrest record. What shocked and embarrassed them tends to fascinate or amuse us.
I have to agree with this. It's been an interesting family tree for us. Escapades and progeny keep showing up. I'm fascinated and laugh a lot at things I would have never done. I'm also sad at times because I did know my loved ones were hurt by those times. It doesn't hurt to keep and record those stories because even if you end up not biologically related, the people you are related to knew them and were shaped by those interactions.
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