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Old 08-15-2018, 04:06 PM
Status: "Stop eating Tide pods and Bats" (set 7 days ago)
 
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
10,250 posts, read 21,738,599 times
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Had I not done genealogy DNA testing it would be easy to find me if I committed a crime. An aunt on mom's side and 1st cousin on dad's side have also taken the test.
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Old 10-05-2018, 08:42 AM
 
Location: NJ
12,665 posts, read 22,604,097 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PA2UK View Post
If it's available to the public, it's available to law enforcement. There is nothing in their Law Enforcement Guide that preludes it: https://www.familytreedna.com/legal/...orcement-guide

Court orders or warrants are only necessary for law enforcement to obtain information not available to the public on those site, like personal details like one's phone number or address (because those are private at FTDNA).

It's the same with any database that is open and available to the public - Gedmatch, MyHeritageDNA, FTDNA, etc. If the public can use it/upload to it, so can law enforcement (AncestryDNA and 23andMe are different, they are not public, because no one can upload DNA files from other sources, you must take their test, with their sample kit to be in their database). That's why I don't understand the outrage and fear surrounding this whole thing - law enforcement did not break the law by uploading suspect DNA to public databases. People don't get outraged or fearful when police use the phone book to find someone's contact information... because it's a public database that people have opted into. Same goes for these public DNA databases. It's not law enforcement's fault if some people didn't realize this.
Colleen told me they can not use FTDNA or My Heritage because they're private companies.

She did tell me there is a public Y-DNA database but she hasn't answered where yet. She's been majorly busy.
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Old 10-05-2018, 01:10 PM
 
Location: Colorado (PA at heart)
9,264 posts, read 14,327,755 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roselvr View Post
Colleen told me they can not use FTDNA or My Heritage because they're private companies.
They might have policies against it, but a private company is just one that is owned privately, meaning it's not owned by the government: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privately_held_company

So gedmatch is a private company too. But private companies are entitled to set whatever policies they wish, and any one of them can prohibit law enforcement from uploading suspect/victim DNA.

MyHeritage does indeed have a policy against it: "Notwithstanding the foregoing, using the DNA Services for law enforcement purposes, forensic examinations, criminal investigations and/or similar purposes, without a court order and without prior explicit written permission from MyHeritage, is strictly prohibited. It is our policy to resist law enforcement inquiries to protect the privacy of our customers."

https://www.myheritage.com/FP/Compan...rms_conditions

Apparently FTDNA do also have this comment in their TOS - I do not know how recently this was added: "You agree to not use the Services for any law enforcement purposes, forensic examinations, criminal investigations, and/or similar purposes without the required legal documentation and written permission from FamilyTreeDNA;"

https://www.familytreedna.com/legal/terms-of-service

So MyHeritage and FTDNA have chosen to prohibit it, but Gedmatch have chosen not to. Nothing to really do with being a private company - it's just different policies the owners have chosen. And those policies can theoretically change any time. Of course, so too can a companies decision to allow or not allow uploads to begin with, but I think it's unlikely AncestryDNA in particular will ever allow that, considering they already have the biggest database by far of over 10 million.

Quote:
She did tell me there is a public Y-DNA database but she hasn't answered where yet. She's been majorly busy.
https://isogg.org/wiki/DNA_databases#Y-DNA_databases - I think Ysearch was the big one but it closed down in May.
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Old 10-06-2018, 04:10 AM
 
Location: NJ
12,665 posts, read 22,604,097 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PA2UK View Post
They might have policies against it, but a private company is just one that is owned privately, meaning it's not owned by the government: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privately_held_company

So gedmatch is a private company too. But private companies are entitled to set whatever policies they wish, and any one of them can prohibit law enforcement from uploading suspect/victim DNA.

MyHeritage does indeed have a policy against it: "Notwithstanding the foregoing, using the DNA Services for law enforcement purposes, forensic examinations, criminal investigations and/or similar purposes, without a court order and without prior explicit written permission from MyHeritage, is strictly prohibited. It is our policy to resist law enforcement inquiries to protect the privacy of our customers."

https://www.myheritage.com/FP/Compan...rms_conditions

Apparently FTDNA do also have this comment in their TOS - I do not know how recently this was added: "You agree to not use the Services for any law enforcement purposes, forensic examinations, criminal investigations, and/or similar purposes without the required legal documentation and written permission from FamilyTreeDNA;"

https://www.familytreedna.com/legal/terms-of-service

So MyHeritage and FTDNA have chosen to prohibit it, but Gedmatch have chosen not to. Nothing to really do with being a private company - it's just different policies the owners have chosen. And those policies can theoretically change any time. Of course, so too can a companies decision to allow or not allow uploads to begin with, but I think it's unlikely AncestryDNA in particular will ever allow that, considering they already have the biggest database by far of over 10 million.



https://isogg.org/wiki/DNA_databases#Y-DNA_databases - I think Ysearch was the big one but it closed down in May.
I'll post when she gets back to me because now I'm curious.
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Old 02-17-2019, 08:36 AM
Status: "County of Surreal" (set 6 days ago)
 
9,576 posts, read 11,504,132 times
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HLN is broadcasting another few episodes about this case, tonight and tomorrow. One episode is about the DNA technique they used/accessed to catch him.
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Old 02-28-2019, 11:36 PM
 
Location: VA, IL, FL, SD, TN, NC, SC
1,005 posts, read 270,155 times
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Maybe D.B. Cooper will be solved this way - LOL( actually they supposedly only have a partial DNA profile and they are not sure it belongs to the suspected hijacker)
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Old 03-01-2019, 04:12 AM
 
Location: NJ
12,665 posts, read 22,604,097 times
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Originally Posted by GhostOfAndrewJackson View Post
Maybe D.B. Cooper will be solved this way - LOL( actually they supposedly only have a partial DNA profile and they are not sure it belongs to the suspected hijacker)
I haven't read that they have DNA from it yet but I'll be shocked if they don't.

New Evidence Emerges In D.B. Cooper Case - Examination Of His Tie Finds Unique Particles Embedded In The Fabric Wed, Jan 18, 2017
Quote:
The Citizen Sleuths say they used an electron microscope to examine the JCPenney clip-on tie worn by the hijacker, and they have identified some 100,000 particles embedded in the fabric, including titanium, Cerium, Sulfide and Strontium.

...evidence has led some to speculate that the man who called himself Dan "D.B." Cooper may have worked as a manager or engineer is a facility where high-tech manufacturing was taking place. One of those at the time was Boeing, which used those elements in the Supersonic Transport plane project, though they can also be found where items such as cathode-ray tubes are produced

Scientists say they may have new evidence in D.B. Cooper case Published 11:53 p.m. ET Jan. 13, 2017
Quote:
Kaye said the elements were rarely used in 1971, during the time of Cooper’s daring leap with a parachute from the passenger jet.

One place they were being used was for Boeing’s high-tech supersonic transport plane, which was being developed with government funding in the 1960s and 1970s.

Kaye wonders if Cooper could have been a Boeing employee or a contractor who wore the tie to work.

..“The tie went with him into these manufacturing environments, for sure, so he was not one of the people running these (manufacturing machines). He was either an engineer or a manager in one of the plants,” Kaye said.

Kaye says Boeing was developing cutting edge monitors, like radar screens, that used some of the elements found on the tie.
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Old 03-01-2019, 09:02 AM
 
Location: VA, IL, FL, SD, TN, NC, SC
1,005 posts, read 270,155 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roselvr View Post
I haven't read that they have DNA from it yet but I'll be shocked if they don't.
They have DNA(partial) from the tie (since he was smart enough to take the cigarettes), though they cannot prove it is his and have used it to exclude suspects.
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Old 03-01-2019, 10:53 AM
 
Location: NJ
12,665 posts, read 22,604,097 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostOfAndrewJackson View Post
They have DNA(partial) from the tie (since he was smart enough to take the cigarettes), though they cannot prove it is his and have used it to exclude suspects.
Found an article from 2011.

D.B. Cooper DNA Results: 'Not A Match'


Quote:
The FBI said the DNA found on the hijacker's clip-on tie and DNA taken from the daughter of potential suspect Lynn D. Cooper is "not a match." However, FBI Special Agent Fred Gutt said, "That doesn't suggest that the current lead is a dead end."

...FBI Special Agent Fred Gutt told ABC News, "It's possible that the DNA sample taken off the tie was not from the hijacker. There are questions about the tie.It may have been borrowed, or purchased used. The DNA may be from someone else," Gutt said. Gutt also said, "The tie had two small DNA samples, and one large sample lifted off in 2000-2001. It's difficult to draw firm conclusions from these samples."
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Old 06-13-2019, 05:15 AM
 
Location: NJ
12,665 posts, read 22,604,097 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roselvr View Post
Thanks for posting the blog link. I've been trying to compile a reply to fill everyone in on what's been happening that lead to this. The blog post was a quick explanation of it. I wrote all of this before I read the blog you linked to; so now I have to process it because they made good points with the rape case.

I've picked the best articles for someone not familiar with what's happened that I've seen on the subject of what's happened in the missing and unidentified person's world where this has been huge news. It was just a matter of time and the timing is what's made it bigger news.

April 11th an Unidentified Jane Doe known as Buckskin Girl was identified as Marcia King by a new organization called DNA Doe Project. They're working on 2 of my 1st cases that I follow; Buckskin Girl and a guy that committed suicide known as Lyle Stevik. They lucked out with Buckskin Girl, they got a cousin match, went to Ancestry where they were able to find Marcia listed in a family tree as missing, presumed deceased. With Lyle, they haven't been so lucky. They have a lot of 3rd or 4th cousins but his family intermarried so it's been hard trying to pin point him. They do know his family settled; Rio Arriba, Taos counties New Mexico. *Note, I'm linking to their albums on the missing and unidentified person's FB page I co-own with a friend. Their article histories are in each album. Both Lyle and Buckskin Girl (Marcia) have had isotopes and pollen done. Their LE are very eager to solve their cases and have tried everything.

I don't mind organizations like DNA Doe Project using our DNA samples on GEDmatch to give a Doe their identity back but LE possibly using it to capture criminals is a different story. Not that I mind them doing it to capture a monster like Joseph James DeAngelo, but I hope they don't start using it as another database. They have CODIS, they have a fingerprint database AFIS and a dental database NCIC. If everyone reads the articles I've posted, they'll have an idea of how involved it was to get to Joseph James DeAngelo. They had to take whatever they had with DNA, send it to a specialized company to extract it then put it in a raw file that could be uploaded to GEDmatch. It was unheard of until DNA Doe Project found people willing to help do just that. Not only that; the DNA was very degraded which you'll see in one of the Buckskin Girl articles. With some Does they only have a small percent to work from. Colleen from DNA Doe Project gave a link last night in a FB group she runs, she said it was the most accurate article she had read.

Since I'm talking about DNA Doe Project; PA2UK's blog Gedmatch Admixture Guide got mentioned on their page. People had been asking questions about GEDmatch so DDP made a post about it. To see their post - DNA Doe Project - March 28 at 6:55pm · I had given them my family tree and DNA direction post, not sure if they got the blog from there or by googling but it was pretty cool to see it.

For those that don't know who Colleen is I will add some links at the bottom. She identified a Jane Doe known as Lori Ruff. Someone then contacted her to see if she'd take on Lyle Stevik's case. It's what got the wheels in motion. LE should have been able to give her Lyle's DNA sample in UNT/ NamUs but they would not release the string of data unless it was a government agency. She set out to find another way and DNA Doe was born.



For anyone interested in the Buxkskin Girl case and how DDP turned things like blood, bone and teeth into a raw data file see the articles below. If you have time, I highly suggest the presser where Colleen and Margaret explained it.The morning of the presser I sent a bunch of FB PM's to various news agencies trying to get them to cover it live, I knew it was going to be huge news and it was. One did. It's available on FB Live video


'Buck Skin Girl' Case Break Is Success of New DNA Doe Project By Seth Augenstein April 17, 2018



Lyle Stevik
DNA links John Doe's ancestry to Rio Arriba, Taos counties By: Jackie Kent - Updated: Apr 05, 2018 04:57 PM MDT



Colleen suggested this article, she said it's the most accurate
New genetic sleuthing tools helped track down the Golden State Killer suspect - Mining genealogy databases to find crime suspects raises privacy concerns - By Tina Hesman Saey - 9:49am, April 29, 2018






GEDmatch, a tiny DNA analysis firm, was key for Golden State Killer case

"No court order was needed to access that site’s large database of genetic blueprints." - By Cyrus Farivar - 4/27/2018, 10:25 AM


___________________
Some links about Colleen for those that haven't heard of her - she identified a Doe known as Lori Ruff; the unknown child on the Titanic and she's working on an Australian case called Somerton Man to name a few. Her partner is a gal named Margaret.

Colleen Forensic Genealogy

Her website Identifinders International

The Genetic Genealogist - Interview With Forensic Genealogist Colleen Fitzpatrick, Ph.D.
Well the timing of the golden state killer being identified by DNA coming right after DNA Doe Project was the 1st to identify someone using GEDmatch is no coincidence. It appears Colleen (DDP founder) helped on the golden state killer case.

Is your DNA snitching on your family? Family DNA is changing how police solve cold cases like the ‘Geauga’s Child

Quote:
Recently, law enforcement turned its focus to GEDmatch.com, a relatively new, publicly sourced DNA database. It was created in 2011 by a DNA genealogy enthusiast who had no intention of designing a platform that law enforcement could exploit to solve dormant criminal cases like the “Geauga’s Child.”

It was sort of like a desert island where the genealogists could go play in the sand with their DNA,” Fitzpatrick, who helped solve the Golden State Killer case, said.
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