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You have no homeland? Then what happened in 1948 and all the none-sense with Palestinians being vacated. Is not “Isra’el your homeland for modern Jewry? A Jewish state? I have a personal friend who is Mizrahi form Israel. As far as he is concerned, Isra’el is his homeland because he is a descendent of Biblical peoples. His family has always been in the Levant and in Isra’el. He considers himself an “ancestral Jew.” He is not confused asking people what he is. He knows!
There is no “Jewish” race. They were not pure. King David had Gentile blood via Ruth. If we follow the Biblical narrative during the Exodus, they went into Egypt (Gen 46:27) 70 and came in the upwards it’s estimated 2mil. (incl. women and children)? I’m pretty sure in that 70 were intermarrying with Egyptians. Exodus 12:38-39 says a “mixed-Multitude” went with them leaving Egypt. Moses himself took Katura for a wife and she was not “Israelite” The orthodoxy of Judaism started at Mt. Sinai. They came together under a group of people sharing a faith, not a race. Worshiping one God? Yes. Demographics in that area of the Levant, no one was pure anyway.
Your faith is your kinship. Being a mixture of different nationalities does not make people “homeless.” Jewish people are the only people which have this issue. That’s a fact!
Nonsense. Roma, as a quick example, are a "homeless" people who are a mixture of different nationalities.
Do you know much about modern DNA research? I ask because most studies do indeed show that Ashkenazi Jews are an "ethnicity" in that their members are more closely related to each other than they are to their non-Jewish neighbors. In fact, the Ashkenazi are one of the most tightly clustered ethnicities in all of Europe.
Long story short...........a DNA test absolutely will tell you if you are, or in part, an ethnic Ashkenazi Jew. That isn't exactly the same as "race" but for that group at least, kinship is almost always more than just faith, it is blood and common ancestry as well.
This link has a chart of Jewish groups. You can see how closely both the Ashkenazi cluster, and the Greek/Turkish Jews for that matter as well.
Thank You for responding.
Just to be clear I already know that I am half Sefardic and half Ashkenazi. I don't need more confirmation of that.
My whole premise of this thread is if being jewish is an ethnicity or not and whether or not I should introduce myself as being jewish when asked which country I am from ? My choices are half Israeli/ half American (mother born in Israel, father in USA ), or Greek, Turkish and Russian which is mixed mediterranean or just straight up jewish.
I am starting to like the half Israeli thing. When asked where my mother was born I say Israel. Most people would assume that I am jewish at that point so that kills 2 birds with one stone....and the weird ethnic look would be explained. My only concern would be having religious commentary to deal with associating "Israel" with political views.
Interesting to see where this thread went. Everything has been relevant to the conversation but many have totally different views on the subject which is what makes the responses so interesting.
The problem here is that the modern state of Israel is very new. Being an Israeli citizen is also new. The Jews who lived there previously and had family roots for many years identified themselves, ironically, as Palestinian. It would be like asking an American in the 18th century, where do his people come from? Sure George Washington is an American, but his family descends from England. He became an American, when the US was established during his lifetime. John Washington, George's great grandfather was an Englishman. George was English living in an English colony, but he self-identified as an American after the war. "American" is too new to become an independent ethnic group.
You mentioned that you are Russian. Maybe, when your ancestor left the "old country" it was part of Russia. Then a few years later that area became part of Poland or Ukraine. Then it became Russia again. What is it now? Does that make you Slavic?
Neither the Greeks nor the Turks in the 20th century would have considered you an authentic Greek or Turk, despite years of Jews living in their countries (usually in separated communities). Also, remember that the borders of countries are very fluid so I can understand that you wish to self-identify as Mediterranean. But genetically, you would differ from the Greeks and the Turks. Heck, even the Turks expelled the Greeks after WWII and there were many Greeks living in Turkey who held Turkish citizenship.
And you're not necessarily Mediterranean, even if your family did stop off in their wandering in Greece and/or Turkey. If you can prove Sephardic ancestry, you are currently eligible for Portuguese or Spanish citizenship. If you or your kids moved to Portugal, would you be American-Portuguese-Jewish?
The obvious answer is to say "I'm Jewish," whether you are observant or not just like the other millions of people who self-identify as Jews in the US. The second part of the question would be where did your family live before coming to the US, as it would be for most non-indigenous people living here.
Years ago, my friend and I were touring Washington DC and we met a very nice visitor from Ireland while sitting in the gallery of the US Senate in the Capitol Building. She asked us to explain what was happening. Then she asked my friend, where did her people come from. My friend thought for a moment and using the simplest explanation, she answered Russia. The visitor from Ireland told us that she had visited Russia and went on and on about the beautiful museums and the music and the ballets and the art, which was as far from her great-grandparents experiences living in the Russian Pale. So she finally said that her great-grandparents were Jewish and that stopped the conversation in its tracks.
Why can't you just say you're from New York? In the same way I say i'm from Texas? It saves me a ton of time explaining my 7000 person ancestry tree that I've traced to all those different countries. Even your father is American/whatever state he was born/lived in. It sounds like he was born to Russians. Your mother, on the other hand, is Israeli. I understand there is a huge cultural difference in New York versus other parts of the United States, but to be honest, like I've said before, there's not a lot of us in the US that are purely 50% one thing and 50% another or even 100% something. You're overthinking all of this.
Just to be clear I already know that I am half Sefardic and half Ashkenazi. I don't need more confirmation of that.
My whole premise of this thread is if being jewish is an ethnicity or not and whether or not I should introduce myself as being jewish when asked which country I am from ? My choices are half Israeli/ half American (mother born in Israel, father in USA ), or Greek, Turkish and Russian which is mixed mediterranean or just straight up jewish.
I am starting to like the half Israeli thing. When asked where my mother was born I say Israel. Most people would assume that I am jewish at that point so that kills 2 birds with one stone....and the weird ethnic look would be explained. My only concern would be having religious commentary to deal with associating "Israel" with political views.
Interesting to see where this thread went. Everything has been relevant to the conversation but many have totally different views on the subject which is what makes the responses so interesting.
Thanks to all the contributors.
If your mother was born in Israel, I would ask where her parents got there from and where they were born. I would ask where her grandparents were from also and where they were born. The birthplace of your paternal grandparents and great-grandparents would be equally significant. You'll no doubt find that Israel was simply a waypoint, rather than a place of origin for anyone.
If you're able to go back another generation that would give you 32 reference points which would tell most of your story. Your DNA, of course, will tell you more but also raise questions you may never be able to answer.
If your mother was born in Israel, I would ask where her parents got there from and where they were born. I would ask where her grandparents were from also and where they were born. The birthplace of your paternal grandparents and great-grandparents would be equally significant. You'll no doubt find that Israel was simply a waypoint, rather than a place of origin for anyone.
Although most Israelis have parents or at least grandparents born outside of Israel, I do know some Israelis who are 7th and 8th generation of native born in Israel.
True, but they don't proselytize and actively discourage converts. Thus they are less genetically mixed than other ethnic groups tend to be.
And they are an ethnic group, not a race.
Actually, no. Most Latinos are part Jewish. The Spanish Inquisition forced the conversion of Jews and Muslims throughout the Spanish and Portuguese Empires. Jews and Muslims had to become Catholic, leave the Spanish or Portuguese empires, or be burned at the stake. Thus most Spaniyards and Portuguese have at least some Jewish or Moorish ancestry. Oh, and they made sure conversions weren't just name only. Anyone caught refusing to eat pork could be burned at the state.
In short, Sephardic Jews (Jews descended from the Iberian peninsula) are heavily mixed. It's a major misconception when people equate Jews with recent Ashkenazi migrants fleeing the Holocaust.
My mother was born in Tel Aviv Israel. She is half turkish half greek. My father was Russian American. Both jewish.
I've got 3 options :
1. Half Israeli Half American
2. Mixed mediterranean descent
3. Jewish (half sephardic half ashkenazi)
For years I have been choosing number 2 but after you mention the second bloodline people usually give in that I am a mutt.
Number 1 can bring out interesting conversations and questions from people. Sometimes I don't feel like talking about it.
Number 3 - I obviously respect my religion but I don't want it to identify me since I don't agree with ALL of it.
America isn't really a bloodline either.
* I look italian ! Nobody clocks me for the above.
Curious to know what YOU would say and how you would present yourself ?
Many Italian people are part Jewish. Big parts of Italy were under the Spanish crown, and yes they forced Jews to convert to Catholic.
People saying this person looks Italian or this person looks Jewish are simply plain ignorant. Jewish people can be found in China, India, Ethiopia, Mali, Nigeria, Russia, Poland, Spain, anywhere in the Americas, and anywhere in the world.
And due to forced conversions under the Inquisition, lots of non practicing people are part Jewish.
Many Italian people are part Jewish. Big parts of Italy were under the Spanish crown, and yes they forced Jews to convert to Catholic.
People saying this person looks Italian or this person looks Jewish are simply plain ignorant. Jewish people can be found in China, India, Ethiopia, Mali, Nigeria, Russia, Poland, Spain, anywhere in the Americas, and anywhere in the world.
And due to forced conversions under the Inquisition, lots of non practicing people are part Jewish.
What you state makes perfect sense in my case. I'm 58 percent Tuscan/Italian and 14 percent Spanish with the rest being French, Greek and Jewish about even at 8-9 percent. I have no family history of anyone being Jewish, yet it's certainly there.
Jewish is a religion, just like Christian or Muslim.\
"Jewish" is an ethnic group. Judaism is the related religion. The two are closely linked, but not identical. For example, Einstein was ethnically Jewish and always self identified as such. But he did not practice Judaism as he was a self identified atheist.
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