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I just got some Y-67 results back from FTDNA, and am having a really hard time trying to figure out how to interpret the results.
Specifically, where do I go to find the most specific Y-tree identification for the sample? Meaning, I see tons of possible subclades under the main heading of I-P37. I see L460 is "presumed positive."
Is "I-P37" all you get for Y-67? Not complaining if it is..........but under the matches (of which there are very few) it seems that individuals that did Y-37 have Y4460, which is more specific than I-P37, right?
I just got some Y-67 results back from FTDNA, and am having a really hard time trying to figure out how to interpret the results.
Specifically, where do I go to find the most specific Y-tree identification for the sample? Meaning, I see tons of possible subclades under the main heading of I-P37. I see L460 is "presumed positive."
Is "I-P37" all you get for Y-67?
Your most specific subclade will be listed in the upper right of your homepage/dashboard. If that's I-P37, then that's your most specific subclade, at least with the amount of data you tested. I've heard that 23andMe's subclades are sometimes more specific than FTDNA.
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Not complaining if it is..........but under the matches (of which there are very few) it seems that individuals that did Y-37 have Y4460, which is more specific than I-P37, right?
Yes, but 37 and 67 are STR markers, and my understanding is that Y haplogroups are actually determined by SNPs, which is why 23andMe's test often has more specific subclades (they use 3,733 Y SNPs) than FTDNA's STR tests.
So obviously FTDNA's Y-STR tests also include SNPs, but I can't seem to find out how many. I know the Big Y test from FTDNA is an SNP test and should be superior to 23andMe's - but it is not cheap.
It's also possible you simply don't have a more specific subclade that's been identified yet, whereas these matches do. These Y matches might be very distant, and therefore it's normal they would have a different subclade than you. So you both descend from I-P37 to different subclades and yours just hasn't been identified yet.
Your most specific subclade will be listed in the upper right of your homepage/dashboard. If that's I-P37, then that's your most specific subclade, at least with the amount of data you tested. I've heard that 23andMe's subclades are sometimes more specific than FTDNA.
Yes, but 37 and 67 are STR markers, and my understanding is that Y haplogroups are actually determined by SNPs, which is why 23andMe's test often has more specific subclades (they use 3,733 Y SNPs) than FTDNA's STR tests.
So obviously FTDNA's Y-STR tests also include SNPs, but I can't seem to find out how many. I know the Big Y test from FTDNA is an SNP test and should be superior to 23andMe's - but it is not cheap.
It's also possible you simply don't have a more specific subclade that's been identified yet, whereas these matches do. These Y matches might be very distant, and therefore it's normal they would have a different subclade than you. So you both descend from I-P37 to different subclades and yours just hasn't been identified yet.
I should have done more research and shopped around better. I didn't even consider 23andMe. Either I am not using the FTDNA site correctly, or they don't really have much information, like distribution maps, about this clade, which is frustrating. All I can find is a list of country names.........which slant heavily towards Eastern Europe, especially Russia........interesting, but not very helpful. Most of the clickable stuff on the site seems geared towards getting you to pay more money.
I am still really confused because when I try to look up I-P37, I keep finding maps and information about I-P37.2. I see I2a also in my search results. Are those all the same things? I am struggling to find any information JUST about I-P37.
I don't think any close matches were found. The sample (not me, just in case anyone was wondering) has only one match at Y-67, and only about 6 or 7 at lower levels. Closest match at Y-67 level is genetic distance of 7. But again, I am pretty lost at the moment............a sample at Y12 comes back with a 25% chance of only being 3 generations away......but a 91% chance at 24 generations, which makes me think there isn't enough data there to say much with confidence.
I should have done more research and shopped around better. I didn't even consider 23andMe.
23andMe might give you a more specific subclade, but they won't include Y matches, which is the real value of the Y test. Haplogroups and subclades are interesting, but they generally aren't very useful for recent genealogy.
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Either I am not using the FTDNA site correctly, or they don't really have much information, like distribution maps, about this clade, which is frustrating.
There is a frequency map if you click on Migration maps, there is the Migration Map, and then another tab you can click on that says Frequency Map. But yes, I have found more info on my haplogroups by googling them.
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All I can find is a list of country names.........which slant heavily towards Eastern Europe, especially Russia........interesting, but not very helpful. Most of the clickable stuff on the site seems geared towards getting you pay more money.
It does sound like I-P37 is primarily Eastern European, but as I say, haplogroups and subclades aren't generally very helpful.
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I am still really confused because when I try to look up I-P37, I keep finding maps and information about I-P37.2. I see I2a also pop in my search results. Are those all the same things? I am struggling to find any information JUST about I-P37.
Yeah, I'm finding that as well - I think I-P37.2 is the same as I-P37:
Which is also the same as I2a1, which was formerly I2a. Confusing enough? I believe some subclades were becoming so long that there was an effort to rename them to make them shorter so Y subclades often have more than one name.
I don't think any close matches were found. Closest match at Y-67 level is genetic distance of 7. But again, I am pretty lost at the moment.
My dad didn't get any close matches either, but two had the same surname, which I also found in his autosomal matches, and that lead me to my grandfather's bio paternal father/lineage.
23andMe might give you a more specific subclade, but they won't include Y matches, which is the real value of the Y test. Haplogroups and subclades are interesting, but they generally aren't very useful for recent genealogy.
There is a frequency map if you click on Migration maps, there is the Migration Map, and then another tab you can click on that says Frequency Map. But yes, I have found more info on my haplogroups by googling them.
It does sound like I-P37 is primarily Eastern European, but as I say, haplogroups and subclades aren't generally very helpful.
Yeah, I'm finding that as well - I think I-P37.2 is the same as I-P37:
Which is also the same as I2a1, which was formerly I2a. Confusing enough? I believe some subclades were becoming so long that there was an effort to rename them to make them shorter so Y subclades often have more than one name.
My dad didn't get any close matches either, but two had the same surname, which I also found in his autosomal matches, and that lead me to my grandfather's bio paternal father/lineage.
Thanks so much for the help. I will dig in over the next few days and make sense of it.
Yes, Y-matches were what I was looking for, more than subclade. The surname is very obscure, and my hypothesis was that the first male who we know had it (lived roughly mid-19th century) likely changed it from something else. I was hoping to find that "something else" with a cluster of similar surnames, or geographic location of matches. I didn't really find either yet.
Short of that, I was hoping a subclade would be specific enough to lock down a small part of the world where that Y is common, but I didn't find that either. Just general Balkans/Eastern Europe it appears.
I took the test primarily for the matches, and in that respect I have not been disappointed. Regardless, I agree much of their report lacks clarity. Have you considered joining your surname project at FTDNA? The admins on my project have been extremely helpful and patient answering a long list of questions, both specific and about the process in general. There’s still a lot I don’t understand, but I’m much further along than when I started.
I took the test primarily for the matches, and in that respect I have not been disappointed. Regardless, I agree much of their report lacks clarity. Have you considered joining your surname project at FTDNA? The admins on my project have been extremely helpful and patient answering a long list of questions, both specific and about the process in general. There’s still a lot I don’t understand, but I’m much further along than when I started.
There is no project for this surname. Maybe a hundred people in the world have it, all descended from this same man living in the mid 19th century as far as I can tell.
I can't list it here because google ties the name directly to close family members.
Either I am not using the FTDNA site correctly, or they don't really have much information, like distribution maps, about this clade, which is frustrating.
FTDNA has discussion groups for general Y-Haplogroups and for specific clades.
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Originally Posted by westsideboy
All I can find is a list of country names.........which slant heavily towards Eastern Europe, especially Russia........interesting, but not very helpful.
If you thought you were going to get a specific country, you thought wrong, because no DNA test can do that.
A DNA test can only identify a region, and in certain specific instances, a small area, but still larger than a country. A DNA test can identify a country if and only if the country is isolated and the population is relatively homogeneous, like, uh, Ireland, Corsica, Elbe, Madagascar or Japan. Maybe one or two others.
People migrate. That's what they do, and they've been doing that for 250,000 years, so it's kind of silly to think a DNA test can identify a specific country.
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Originally Posted by westsideboy
I am still really confused because when I try to look up I-P37, I keep finding maps and information about I-P37.2. I see I2a also in my search results. Are those all the same things? I am struggling to find any information JUST about I-P37.
Basically.
DNA technology was limited originally, which affected the taxonomy of Y-Haplogroups. Advanced technology has resulted in the creation of a new taxonomy system.
For example, I was originally J2, but under the new taxonomy system, I am J-M172.
I'm still J2, but there are three main branches. One group migrated to India, and they are J-M410 (if I got that right), my group migrated to Anatolia, and the third group stayed behind, more or less living in southwestern Russia within about 150 miles of where the original J2 "Adam" was born.
Quote:
Originally Posted by westsideboy
I don't think any close matches were found. The sample (not me, just in case anyone was wondering) has only one match at Y-67, and only about 6 or 7 at lower levels. Closest match at Y-67 level is genetic distance of 7. But again, I am pretty lost at the moment............a sample at Y12 comes back with a 25% chance of only being 3 generations away......but a 91% chance at 24 generations, which makes me think there isn't enough data there to say much with confidence.
It's not unusual to not have close matches. I have only two at the Y-67 Marker.
Ancestry is the largest with Millions and Millions of people, but unfortunately they're too damn dumb to offer Y-DNA testing.
FTDNA doesn't have Millions and Millions of people.
Your matches at the Y-67 Marker are very important, regardless of their genetic distance. Even though I had only two matches, I was able to determine the exact country (Ireland) and not only that, but the exact county in Ireland where my ancestors lived about 900 years ago, and that they probably lived within 5 miles of a certain town in that county.
If you contact your matches by e-mail, hopefully at least one will be receptive, and you might be able to work out from which country your ancestors came.
Your Y-12 Marker matches are going to be all over the place. I've got matches in India, Iran, Russia, Syria, Lebanon and the Balkans, which is what it should be.
Getting additional SNPs tested is of no value, at least not now.
I predict the technology will be such that in the Future, they'll be able to scan for DNA.
So, they'll be able to stand over a grave, and if DNA is present, they'll pick it up without having to dig up the body. Then, yeah, it would be worth it to have SNPs tested.
SNPs are basically minor mutations and they allow you to identify and distinguish your father from all other I-P37s, and your grandfather from all others and so on. Over time, you get minor genetic mutations. You have the original I-P37 "Adam" and then their are minor mutations in his male descendants that create branches, and the branches have branches and so on.
If you had the data, you could trace all those branches back to the I-P37 "Adam", but you don't have the money or time to dig up the Billions of people who have died over the last few thousand years and DNA test them.
FTDNA has discussion groups for general Y-Haplogroups and for specific clades.
If you thought you were going to get a specific country, you thought wrong, because no DNA test can do that.
A DNA test can only identify a region, and in certain specific instances, a small area, but still larger than a country. A DNA test can identify a country if and only if the country is isolated and the population is relatively homogeneous, like, uh, Ireland, Corsica, Elbe, Madagascar or Japan. Maybe one or two others.
People migrate. That's what they do, and they've been doing that for 250,000 years, so it's kind of silly to think a DNA test can identify a specific country.
Basically.
DNA technology was limited originally, which affected the taxonomy of Y-Haplogroups. Advanced technology has resulted in the creation of a new taxonomy system.
For example, I was originally J2, but under the new taxonomy system, I am J-M172.
I'm still J2, but there are three main branches. One group migrated to India, and they are J-M410 (if I got that right), my group migrated to Anatolia, and the third group stayed behind, more or less living in southwestern Russia within about 150 miles of where the original J2 "Adam" was born.
It's not unusual to not have close matches. I have only two at the Y-67 Marker.
Ancestry is the largest with Millions and Millions of people, but unfortunately they're too damn dumb to offer Y-DNA testing.
FTDNA doesn't have Millions and Millions of people.
Your matches at the Y-67 Marker are very important, regardless of their genetic distance. Even though I had only two matches, I was able to determine the exact country (Ireland) and not only that, but the exact county in Ireland where my ancestors lived about 900 years ago, and that they probably lived within 5 miles of a certain town in that county.
If you contact your matches by e-mail, hopefully at least one will be receptive, and you might be able to work out from which country your ancestors came.
Your Y-12 Marker matches are going to be all over the place. I've got matches in India, Iran, Russia, Syria, Lebanon and the Balkans, which is what it should be.
Getting additional SNPs tested is of no value, at least not now.
I predict the technology will be such that in the Future, they'll be able to scan for DNA.
So, they'll be able to stand over a grave, and if DNA is present, they'll pick it up without having to dig up the body. Then, yeah, it would be worth it to have SNPs tested.
SNPs are basically minor mutations and they allow you to identify and distinguish your father from all other I-P37s, and your grandfather from all others and so on. Over time, you get minor genetic mutations. You have the original I-P37 "Adam" and then their are minor mutations in his male descendants that create branches, and the branches have branches and so on.
If you had the data, you could trace all those branches back to the I-P37 "Adam", but you don't have the money or time to dig up the Billions of people who have died over the last few thousand years and DNA test them.
My apologies for 'limping in' to this conversation. I have had limited access to FTDNA Y-test results before, have seen some screenshots, etc. So I am not starting completely from scratch in my knowledge base.
In those cases, it was very clear where the Y-line was from......Ireland or Scotland. The only other countries listed with any frequency were in the Anglosphere. The test locked down the location of the MRCA of the male line within in the last 1,000 years to a pretty specific location.
I guess I expected these results (from one branch of my wife's family, all Greeks so far as we can research) to be similar. Instead, what I got was a much more general clade that informs me these male ancestors were somewhere in Europe, maybe eastern Europe, maybe the Mediterranean in the stone age. Interesting, as mentioned, but not helpful in locking down where this man who I believed changed his name was from, or where his close relatives now live, so far.
I will contact that match though. It appears to be a Jewish name, likely from Russia. We'll see if he has any insight.
ftdna not a bad site, they are pretty good in the y tested, as far as understanding, dont try. just take what ever in the green and thats it, follow the green till it doesnt go any more. But at 67, its not telling you much, I think im at 34,446 markers.
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