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So this thread piqued my interest in the topic of DNA genealogy so I looked into it to understand it. My sister got one of those tests and told me it showed she is 5% Iberian or something.
So one thing I wanted to know is what exactly does that mean when they say you are 5% Iberian?
From what I am reading it means that 5% of specific markers in your DNA are shared with those people who are identified as being Iberian today.
But because of the way reproduction and genetic inheritance works, that does not mean that 5% of your relatives are Iberian. In fact you could have a lot of close relatives who are pure Iberian and still only have 5% of shared DNA. Or you could have one Iberian relative and have a lot of Iberian DNA!
But another gotcha in this is that you cannot really say that you had a long ago relative who lived in Iberia (Spain), only that you share some DNA with people who currently live in Spain. Because of the mobility of humans, it could be that the DNA markers being tested migrated into Spain from somewhere else and your long ago relative was part of that source and not Spain.
To me, it seems pretty iffy to draw too much of a conclusion from ethnicity results using Autosomol DNA (which is the standard). But I am just learning about it. I am curious what others' understanding is as to what exactly is meant by a percentage of ethnicity in a DNA report?
But what I find confusing about these ancestry ones, is that they give the info in terms of countries: Ireland, Scotland, France, Russia/Eastern Europe, etc. It's too vague. Why don't they provide the haplogroups and the migration lineages (M269, or whatever) instead? That really pinpoints it. "France" could be anything, from Basque to Norse, Frankish (Germanic), to Celtic. "Russia" could be Indo-Iranian (R1a), Scandinavian (Rib or possibly I), Finnic/Uralic (N3), not to mention the Jewish lineage. I can't relate to the way they do it.
Is it because it's a more superficial test? I'm not interested in finding cousins and so forth. I want to know where my 4 grandparental lineages fit in with the map of the original peopling/s of Europe.
They (Ancestry) do break down the regions even further and are constantly updating their reference panel and trying to get very specific. I forgot to mention that part.
For instance, my 88% Eastern Europe & Russia is actually broken down further to these two subregions:
Czech Republic, Slovakia, Poland & Lithuania (from my Dad)
Poland, Slovakia, Hungary & Romania (from my Mom)
Then it's broken down even further and under Czech Republic, Slovakia, Poland & Lithuania, I have a sub-subregion of Mazovia & Lodz and under Poland, Slovakia, Hungary & Romania, I have a sub-subregion of Eastern Hungary, Eastern Slovakia, Northwest Romania & Western Ukraine.
I know some people will say that is still too broad, but on the map it's pretty spot on as to where my ancestors came from (at least through the 1800's) according to my research. I'm sure in the future it will continue to get more and more refined.
The Ireland & Scotland region on Ancestry, actually has 116 subregions!
As for the haplogroup question, from FamilyTreeDNA I know my paternal haplogroup is E1b1b1a1b1a and my maternal haplogroup is N1b1, and that's interesting information, but remember that is just 2 branches of tens of thousands on my tree, if you know what I mean. Yes, it shows ancient migration, but of only two lines, what about all the other branches out there?
I guess it would have been neat/cool/amazing if DNA technology was around and I was able to get the DNA from all 8 of my great-grandparents or all 16 or my great-great-grandparents, then looking at all those various haplogroups would be interesting, but even then you are disregarding tons of other branches going further back. I know some people are "hardcore" Y-chromosome and mtDNA people, but it's just my father's father's father's father's etc. or my mother's mother's mother's mother's etc. which is what, a very small percentage of your tree!
Sorry it's all in Russian but I am sure, plenty of you here understand that language.
No, plenty of us don't understand Russian. This is an English-language forum (I've had some posts removed when I posted stuff in Spanish that was more than a sentence in length.) and Russian is only the 7th most spoken language in the world, most of its speakers being in and near Russia. How about a transcription that's translated into English?
They (Ancestry) do break down the regions even further and are constantly updating their reference panel and trying to get very specific. I forgot to mention that part.
For instance, my 88% Eastern Europe & Russia is actually broken down further to these two subregions:
Czech Republic, Slovakia, Poland & Lithuania (from my Dad)
Poland, Slovakia, Hungary & Romania (from my Mom)
Then it's broken down even further and under Czech Republic, Slovakia, Poland & Lithuania, I have a sub-subregion of Mazovia & Lodz and under Poland, Slovakia, Hungary & Romania, I have a sub-subregion of Eastern Hungary, Eastern Slovakia, Northwest Romania & Western Ukraine.
I know some people will say that is still too broad, but on the map it's pretty spot on as to where my ancestors came from (at least through the 1800's) according to my research. I'm sure in the future it will continue to get more and more refined.
The Ireland & Scotland region on Ancestry, actually has 116 subregions!
As for the haplogroup question, from FamilyTreeDNA I know my paternal haplogroup is E1b1b1a1b1a and my maternal haplogroup is N1b1, and that's interesting information, but remember that is just 2 branches of tens of thousands on my tree, if you know what I mean. Yes, it shows ancient migration, but of only two lines, what about all the other branches out there?
I guess it would have been neat/cool/amazing if DNA technology was around and I was able to get the DNA from all 8 of my great-grandparents or all 16 or my great-great-grandparents, then looking at all those various haplogroups would be interesting, but even then you are disregarding tons of other branches going further back. I know some people are "hardcore" Y-chromosome and mtDNA people, but it's just my father's father's father's father's etc. or my mother's mother's mother's mother's etc. which is what, a very small percentage of your tree!
My Hungarian uncle also has Poland, Slovakia, Hungary & Romania; mine only goes to Czech Republic, Slovakia, Poland & Lithuania. I finally had my Hungarian cousin (my mothers brothers son) do his Ancestry DNA; it's almost done processing. I can't wait to see if his will have the Poland, Slovakia, Hungary & Romania.
My Hungarian uncle also has Poland, Slovakia, Hungary & Romania; mine only goes to Czech Republic, Slovakia, Poland & Lithuania. I finally had my Hungarian cousin (my mothers brothers son) do his Ancestry DNA; it's almost done processing. I can't wait to see if his will have the Poland, Slovakia, Hungary & Romania.
He might even have a sub-subregion under the Poland, Slovakia, Hungary & Romania subregion, there's 4:
Eastern Hungary, Eastern Slovakia, Northwest Romania & Western Ukraine (the one I have through my mother)
Eastern Slovakia
Eastern Slovakia & Southern Poland
Hungary & Slovakia
If I had to guess, he could have either the first or last sub-subregion?
My Dad actually has two sub-subregions under the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Poland & Lithuania subregion:
Lesser Poland (which didn't show up in my DNA results)
Mazovia & Lodz (which showed up in my DNA results)
So this thread piqued my interest in the topic of DNA genealogy so I looked into it to understand it. My sister got one of those tests and told me it showed she is 5% Iberian or something.
So one thing I wanted to know is what exactly does that mean when they say you are 5% Iberian?
It means roughly 5% of her tested DNA most closely matches the company's reference panel (made up of modern people whose ancestry is from that area as far back as they can trace) as per their particular algorithm.
Quote:
From what I am reading it means that 5% of specific markers in your DNA are shared with those people who are identified as being Iberian today.
They look at combinations of markers, not individual ones.
Quote:
But because of the way reproduction and genetic inheritance works, that does not mean that 5% of your relatives are Iberian. In fact you could have a lot of close relatives who are pure Iberian and still only have 5% of shared DNA. Or you could have one Iberian relative and have a lot of Iberian DNA!
No, they are definitely not saying 5% of your relatives are Iberian. The idea is that it can theoretically be interpreted as about 5% of your ancestry (not the same thing as relatives) is Iberian, but of course that is not what it literally means either. They do try to verify that their samples are coming from people with long ancestries in those regions, they don't just assume if you live in Iberia that your entire ancestry is Iberian.
Quote:
But another gotcha in this is that you cannot really say that you had a long ago relative who lived in Iberia (Spain), only that you share some DNA with people who currently live in Spain. Because of the mobility of humans, it could be that the DNA markers being tested migrated into Spain from somewhere else and your long ago relative was part of that source and not Spain.
To me, it seems pretty iffy to draw too much of a conclusion from ethnicity results using Autosomol DNA (which is the standard). But I am just learning about it. I am curious what others' understanding is as to what exactly is meant by a percentage of ethnicity in a DNA report?
Yes, that's pretty much correct, and that's partly why we always say you can't take it literally. But there is some level of reliability of it, which continues to increase as updates are made and bigger reference panels are collected. For example, because my paternal grandfather tested, I know I share 18% of my DNA with him, not from the ethnicity report, but just on how much DNA we share. That means I got 32% from my Italian paternal grandmother. It's not a coincidence that I consistently get around 30-33% in South Europe/Italy from most DNA companies.
They (Ancestry) do break down the regions even further and are constantly updating their reference panel and trying to get very specific. I forgot to mention that part.
For instance, my 88% Eastern Europe & Russia is actually broken down further to these two subregions:
Czech Republic, Slovakia, Poland & Lithuania (from my Dad)
Poland, Slovakia, Hungary & Romania (from my Mom)
Then it's broken down even further and under Czech Republic, Slovakia, Poland & Lithuania, I have a sub-subregion of Mazovia & Lodz and under Poland, Slovakia, Hungary & Romania, I have a sub-subregion of Eastern Hungary, Eastern Slovakia, Northwest Romania & Western Ukraine.
I know some people will say that is still too broad, but on the map it's pretty spot on as to where my ancestors came from (at least through the 1800's) according to my research. I'm sure in the future it will continue to get more and more refined.
The Ireland & Scotland region on Ancestry, actually has 116 subregions!
As for the haplogroup question, from FamilyTreeDNA I know my paternal haplogroup is E1b1b1a1b1a and my maternal haplogroup is N1b1, and that's interesting information, but remember that is just 2 branches of tens of thousands on my tree, if you know what I mean. Yes, it shows ancient migration, but of only two lines, what about all the other branches out there?
I guess it would have been neat/cool/amazing if DNA technology was around and I was able to get the DNA from all 8 of my great-grandparents or all 16 or my great-great-grandparents, then looking at all those various haplogroups would be interesting, but even then you are disregarding tons of other branches going further back. I know some people are "hardcore" Y-chromosome and mtDNA people, but it's just my father's father's father's father's etc. or my mother's mother's mother's mother's etc. which is what, a very small percentage of your tree!
I'm jealous, lol!
I don't get any European regions. My mom and maternal grandmother have Scottish lowland regions, which is accurate based on the family tree. I figure I am too far removed from any immigrants to have enough DNA matches to qualify (like PAUK, I only got about 20% of my DNA from that grandparent.)
I do get the Potomac River Valley Settlers migration region, which is dead on accurate.........13/16 great-great-grandparents were born in this small 5 county region, and I still live there to this day.
Since I don't speak Russian and I'm pretty sure most people here don't either, I will just respond to your comments.
Ethnicity results are not "bogus". They are actually fairly reliable on a continental level. On sub-continental levels they become more speculative, and to what degree depending on the location/population. The ethnicity report is merely an interpretation of your DNA, and as such, there can be more than one interpretation, and because of that it's best not to take the more specific locations or the exact percentage amounts too literally. All this - the reliability of continental results and the varying degrees of reliability of sub-continental results have been proven by literally millions of testers. That does not make it "bogus" or a "scam". A scam is something fraudulent - such as if you paid for a DNA test and never received one at all. DNA companies are fairly upfront about the ethnicity report being an "estimate" so there's no scam here. Or a scam might be if the DNA results were completely fabricated, but they are not - despite varying degrees of accuracy in the ethnicity report, the DNA is processed and compared with reference panels using a complex algorithm. They are providing what they promised, therefore it's not a scam. People seem to like to throw the word scam around for anything that they find even slightly disappointing or not what they expected and I'm sorry, that's not the definition of a scam.
My dad is half Southern Italian, and he consistently gets around 50% results in Italy/South Europe from nearly every single DNA company (the only dissenter is MyHeritage). You really think that's just a coincidence?
My husband is roughly 53% Irish, 6% Scottish, and 41% English. At FTDNA, he gets 97% British Isles. At AncestryDNA, 61% Ireland/Scotland and 38% England. But if we are to believe you, that's apparently just a coincidence too.
And let's not forget that populations with lots of endogamy or isolation tend to be extremely reliable in their results, like Ashkenazi Jewish or islanders.
How much research have you really done on this? Or did you just see this video that most people here won't even be able to watch and decide this was the definitive word on the matter? A lot of us here have been researching this subject for years now - but okay, we're just going to take the word of a newcomer and a video we can't understand.
Fairly reliable results is not an acceptable measure.
I don't get any European regions. My mom and maternal grandmother have Scottish lowland regions, which is accurate based on the family tree. I figure I am too far removed from any immigrants to have enough DNA matches to qualify (like PAUK, I only got about 20% of my DNA from that grandparent.)
I do get the Potomac River Valley Settlers migration region, which is dead on accurate.........13/16 great-great-grandparents were born in this small 5 county region, and I still live there to this day.
My mom must have really "lucked out" because half of her ancestors came to the US from Eastern Europe in the early 1900s and she got the Poland, Slovakia, Hungary & Romania subregion, then Eastern Hungary, Eastern Slovakia, Northwest Romania & Western Ukraine under that from Ancestry.
The other half of her ancestors came to the US from Ireland, Scotland, England, the Netherlands, Germany and France in the 1600s (no Mayflower) and 1700s, so in her DNA Origins she also has additional communities:
Pennsylvania Settlers and the subcategory Poconos & North Jersey Settlers
New York Settlers and the subcategory Metropolitan New York Settlers
It's always nice when science backs up the hard work of the paper trail!
(So I would say, DNA ancestry results are NOT bogus, because they confirmed my Mom's tree perfectly.)
Last edited by cjseliga; 07-03-2019 at 10:45 AM..
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