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I want to put some things into perspective for people to pinpoint their search and the realities of Indigenous ancestry in particular Cherokee, regardless of what an ancestry DNA test says. If you are 0% Native American or 100%.......Can you trace your ancestry to the Cherokee people?
The many people which claim "Cherokee" cannot localize which Nation they descend from. With proper research, one should be able to definitively state which federal tribe they originate from. After all, most all Cherokee descend from three groups.
There are three federally recognized nations of Cherokee people. They are distinct, are separate tribes with separate governments and constitutions, though they are all the “Principle” people, the Cherokee.
1. The United Keetoowah Band of Cherokee Indians - Today in Oklahoma
2. The Cherokee Nation - Today in Oklahoma
3. The Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians - original homeland North Carolina, Qualla Boundary
Cherokee original homelands were Western North Carolina, Western South Carolina, Eastern Tennessee and Kentucky, though areas were mainly hunting grounds like Kentucky. Cherokee had been forced to cede lands which vastly shrank to small territories and were eventually localized into NE Georgia, NW Alabama and Western NC. If your ancestor(s) lived along Cherokee territory at some point does not = I have a Cherokee ancestor. If you have no ancestry from these areas at all, rethink the tribe and do proper research.
These are the only three nations of Cherokee which are “treaty” tribes which Cherokee people have been recorded by the federal government. There are many pseudo Cherokee tribes. However, Indigenous ancestry let alone Cherokee specifically are unable to be confirmed as claims are usually anecdotal. Beliefs and customs are often imitated, taken from New Age beliefs and other Indian tribes but are not core practices of the Cherokee.
The Indian Removal Act (Trail of Tears 1831-1850) affected The Five Civilized Tribes of the American Southeast. The Chickasaw, Choctaw, Seminoles, Muskogee (Creek) and Cherokee (Tsalagi).
The Cherokee forced removal stared in 1838 and removed the Cherokee Nation to then Indian Territory (Oklahoma). The Keetoowah started to Arkansas as early as 1790 prior to the forced removal which the tribe eventually relocated to Indian Territory. The Eastern Band of Cherokee today remain today on the Qualla Boundary in North Western Carolina.
You will hear many myths of ancestry coming from the Trail of Tears and other. To name a few;
My great, great grandma was dropped off with a White family during the trail of tears.
Cherokee families lived in Clans. If a Cherokee woman had died during the trail of tears, other Cherokee women or a clan mother would have cared for the child or children. They would not dispose of a Cherokee baby to White families or any other tribe.
When the Indian Removal was happening my ancestors hid.
Small, I mean small amounts of people hid or fled. Cherokee people stayed together during the trek out west. 300-400 hid in the mountains to avoid removal. These people would later become the core of the Eastern Band of Cherokee with a formed government in 1868 and recognized by the federal government.
Ones that took off and never returned to the tribe, was even smaller and dangerous for them. Some of them would seek refuge with another tribe.
My ancestors refused to sign the Dawes Rolls.
The Cherokee people have been recorded on many rolls before and after the removal which preceded the Dawes. Many people are of the assumption that if they do not find an ancestor on the infamous Dawes Rolls, they have no Cherokee ancestor(s) or a good excuse not to document one. You may need to go back onto additional rolls. Cherokee people, when confirmed on a roll, prior rolls were used for confirmation to tribal affiliation.
Church records burned in a fire or it was written in a Bible I can’t find.
Cherokee people were recorded on rolls with the nucleus of Cherokee people. These records still stand today. So I mention the below.
These are the rolls the Cherokee people were recorded on. If you believe your ancestor or ancestors were Cherokee and don’t find them on any of the rolls, it is however unfortunate you are unable to confirm direct ties to the tribe. Tracing ancestry is difficult to begin with, American Indian ancestry can be more difficult. Not considering the fact Indian Blood Myth stories are abundant in many families.
Here are rolls you can research, dates and Cherokee tribe for the roll. Some of these rolls may not be available online and you may need to contact the tribe for assistance.
Eastern Rolls - Cherokee East of the Mississippi
Reservation Rolls of 1817
Emigration Rolls of 1817
Henderson Roll of 1835
Mullay Roll of 1848
Siler Roll of 1851
Chapman Roll of 1852
Swetland Roll of 1869
Hester Roll of 1883
Churchill Roll of 1908
Baker Roll of 1924 - Final Rolls Eastern Band
Eastern portion of the Guion Miller Roll of 1909
Western – Cherokee Nation and Keetoowah
Old Settler Roll of 1851
Drennen Roll of 1852
Dawes Rolls of 1898-1914 Final Roll Nation and Keetoowah
Western portion of the Guion Miller Roll of 1909
Many claims that abound of Cherokee ancestry often revolves around a "phantom" Indian ancestor that "looked Indian" but cannot be connected to any documented Cherokee rolls, or American tribe.
Here are some pictures of full-blood Cherokee from the Eastern Band. Snow Bird community however small, which has full-blood and high quanta Indians are not found in the family photo album.
Only ancestors with stereotypes such as black hair and high cheeks are used to substantiate ancestry. In reality, black hair and high cheekbones are seen throughout many ethnic groups, even Europeans.
There are an estimated 10 to 35 million living descendants of the small group of Mayflower passenger Pilgrims worldwide. Given the larger base numbers of the Cherokee bands/nation I would think that the numbers of descendants are very high, certainly in the multi-millions in the general population in spite of any tribal and racial impediments. Being able to trace directly to a tribal source is probably a relatively small subset. That doesn't mean people are lying or always inventing an Indian in the family tree...although family myths do exist.
I want to put some things into perspective for people to pinpoint their search and the realities of Indigenous ancestry in particular Cherokee, regardless of what an ancestry DNA test says. If you are 0% Native American or 100%.......Can you trace your ancestry to the Cherokee people?
The many people which claim "Cherokee" cannot localize which Nation they descend from. With proper research, one should be able to definitively state which federal tribe they originate from. After all, most all Cherokee descend from three groups.
There are three federally recognized nations of Cherokee people. They are distinct, are separate tribes with separate governments and constitutions, though they are all the “Principle” people, the Cherokee.
1. The United Keetoowah Band of Cherokee Indians - Today in Oklahoma
2. The Cherokee Nation - Today in Oklahoma
3. The Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians - original homeland North Carolina, Qualla Boundary
Cherokee original homelands were Western North Carolina, Western South Carolina, Eastern Tennessee and Kentucky, though areas were mainly hunting grounds like Kentucky. Cherokee had been forced to cede lands which vastly shrank to small territories and were eventually localized into NE Georgia, NW Alabama and Western NC. If your ancestor(s) lived along Cherokee territory at some point does not = I have a Cherokee ancestor. If you have no ancestry from these areas at all, rethink the tribe and do proper research.
These are the only three nations of Cherokee which are “treaty” tribes which Cherokee people have been recorded by the federal government. There are many pseudo Cherokee tribes. However, Indigenous ancestry let alone Cherokee specifically are unable to be confirmed as claims are usually anecdotal. Beliefs and customs are often imitated, taken from New Age beliefs and other Indian tribes but are not core practices of the Cherokee.
The Indian Removal Act (Trail of Tears 1831-1850) affected The Five Civilized Tribes of the American Southeast. The Chickasaw, Choctaw, Seminoles, Muskogee (Creek) and Cherokee (Tsalagi).
The Cherokee forced removal stared in 1838 and removed the Cherokee Nation to then Indian Territory (Oklahoma). The Keetoowah started to Arkansas as early as 1790 prior to the forced removal which the tribe eventually relocated to Indian Territory. The Eastern Band of Cherokee today remain today on the Qualla Boundary in North Western Carolina.
You will hear many myths of ancestry coming from the Trail of Tears and other. To name a few;
My great, great grandma was dropped off with a White family during the trail of tears.
Cherokee families lived in Clans. If a Cherokee woman had died during the trail of tears, other Cherokee women or a clan mother would have cared for the child or children. They would not dispose of a Cherokee baby to White families or any other tribe.
When the Indian Removal was happening my ancestors hid.
Small, I mean small amounts of people hid or fled. Cherokee people stayed together during the trek out west. 300-400 hid in the mountains to avoid removal. These people would later become the core of the Eastern Band of Cherokee with a formed government in 1868 and recognized by the federal government.
Ones that took off and never returned to the tribe, was even smaller and dangerous for them. Some of them would seek refuge with another tribe.
My ancestors refused to sign the Dawes Rolls.
The Cherokee people have been recorded on many rolls before and after the removal which preceded the Dawes. Many people are of the assumption that if they do not find an ancestor on the infamous Dawes Rolls, they have no Cherokee ancestor(s) or a good excuse not to document one. You may need to go back onto additional rolls. Cherokee people, when confirmed on a roll, prior rolls were used for confirmation to tribal affiliation.
Church records burned in a fire or it was written in a Bible I can’t find.
Cherokee people were recorded on rolls with the nucleus of Cherokee people. These records still stand today. So I mention the below.
These are the rolls the Cherokee people were recorded on. If you believe your ancestor or ancestors were Cherokee and don’t find them on any of the rolls, it is however unfortunate you are unable to confirm direct ties to the tribe. Tracing ancestry is difficult to begin with, American Indian ancestry can be more difficult. Not considering the fact Indian Blood Myth stories are abundant in many families.
Here are rolls you can research, dates and Cherokee tribe for the roll. Some of these rolls may not be available online and you may need to contact the tribe for assistance.
Eastern Rolls - Cherokee East of the Mississippi
Reservation Rolls of 1817
Emigration Rolls of 1817
Henderson Roll of 1835
Mullay Roll of 1848
Siler Roll of 1851
Chapman Roll of 1852
Swetland Roll of 1869
Hester Roll of 1883
Churchill Roll of 1908
Baker Roll of 1924 - Final Rolls Eastern Band
Eastern portion of the Guion Miller Roll of 1909
Western – Cherokee Nation and Keetoowah
Old Settler Roll of 1851
Drennen Roll of 1852
Dawes Rolls of 1898-1914 Final Roll Nation and Keetoowah
Western portion of the Guion Miller Roll of 1909
Many claims that abound of Cherokee ancestry often revolves around a "phantom" Indian ancestor that "looked Indian" but cannot be connected to any documented Cherokee rolls, or American tribe.
Here are some pictures of full-blood Cherokee from the Eastern Band. Snow Bird community however small, which has full-blood and high quanta Indians are not found in the family photo album.
Only ancestors with stereotypes such as black hair and high cheeks are used to substantiate ancestry. In reality, black hair and high cheekbones are seen throughout many ethnic groups, even Europeans.
Best of luck.
Diamond Brown, rest his soul.
Thanks so much for your thread. I hope it helps people. I quoted you and added it to the family tree directions threads which will be getting rewritten this spring. All of the companies had recent changes so I've been holding off. I want the new thread to be filled with lots of great tips like yours.
How do you feel about shovel teeth that Native Americans have. Do you know at what point after someone is NA mixed with say European that shovel teeth won't show up?
My son's ex GF swears they have fairly recent NA. I believe it was her fathers mother. My son gifted her an Ancestry test, no NA of course. I asked her if she or her father had shovel teeth, I even sent her photos. She replied back to me circling one of the photos which was funny as heck to me because it was posted here! Even funnier? They weren't shovel teeth LMAO
My son's grandmother has NJ Lenni Lenape by her great grandmother. It is traceable in records, the Whooley family. She doesn't show NA either at Ancestry.
Before the Cherokee arrived in North Carolina, it is believed they lived around the Great Lakes region and moved south after being defeated in warfare. They speak an Iroquoian language like those from upper New York State, including the Mohawks.
I have a lot of DNA Relatives who identify as Lumbee, which is not a federally-recognized tribe. It is a made-up category of tri-racial isolated people mostly from Robeson County in southeastern NC. One of may ancestral surnames is very common in that area, and I match a lot of Locklears, Oxendines, Lowerys, Chavises, etc. which are common Lumbee names. This gives me a window into their genetics since I can see the ethnicity estimates of these people who still live in the Pembroke, NC area. Most are about 25% African, 75% European, and some have a smidgen of Native American DNA. But they identify as "Indian." They are also heavily interrelated, so that each one matches the others at an amount typical of 2nd cousins, suggesting they were isolated and intermarried for many generations. They may be descendants of people who absorbed the settlers who abandoned the Roanoke colony, as well as Spanish merchants, sailors, and their slaves who were shipwrecked off the Carolina coast.
I wanted to make a correction of Alabama as "North East." I had written North West. Georgia as the north though more North West.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roselvr
Thanks so much for your thread. I hope it helps people. I quoted you and added it to the family tree directions threads which will be getting rewritten this spring. All of the companies had recent changes so I've been holding off. I want the new thread to be filled with lots of great tips like yours.
How do you feel about shovel teeth that Native Americans have. Do you know at what point after someone is NA mixed with say European that shovel teeth won't show up?
My son's ex GF swears they have fairly recent NA. I believe it was her fathers mother. My son gifted her an Ancestry test, no NA of course. I asked her if she or her father had shovel teeth, I even sent her photos. She replied back to me circling one of the photos which was funny as heck to me because it was posted here! Even funnier? They weren't shovel teeth LMAO
My son's grandmother has NJ Lenni Lenape by her great grandmother. It is traceable in records, the Whooley family. She doesn't show NA either at Ancestry.
Regarding "Shovel Teeth", proper tooth morphology is, Asian Shovel Incisors. They are found most prominent in Asian derived populations (incl. India, Pacific Islands) and Native Americans. They are rarely seen in African and European populations. Once populations become mixed race(s), different genetics and genetic variations are introduced.
This study below shows Shovel Teeth in the Turkey.
As far as heritability within groups, or intrafamilial (within families) is about 75%.
"Characteristics of dental morphology are thought to be determined predominantly by genetic factors.5 However, genetic polymorphisms associated with common dental traits have not yet been elucidated. For tooth shoveling, high concordance between monozygotic twins has been observed.11,12 On the basis of intrafamilial correlations, three different studies have reported that the heritability of tooth shoveling was around 0.75 in Asian and Native American groups."
I would be very careful for people to officiate Native American ancestry solely on having "shovel teeth."
I've seen a case with someone on 23andMe who was African and had tooth shoveling. Her dentist said it was rare. She had no Asian/Native American in her lineage. Likewise, not having shovel teeth does not rule out Native American ancestry. You can be 1/4 Native American and not have shovel teeth.
I also think it is important to note, and this is especially for "Melungeon" people and black Americans who claim native ancestry, often citing "Cherokee" that the Cherokee was a catch call term for all indigenous ancestry for a lot of people.
My own family does have a documented connection to the Nansemond in Virginia. On ancestry I have 0% native DNA markers. However, I took a 23andMe test recently and they say I am 1.2% Native American, which is interesting.
My documented connection is through my maternal grandfather. He is still alive and does have native markers on Ancestry. His family (per his first cousin who is older and they did not grow up knowing each other - they connected again in their 60s) claimed to be both Cherokee and Pottawatomie prior to people in the family beginning to research. His cousin started researching about 10 years ago and she documented the Nansemond descent via their maternal line (their mothers were sisters). I've checked it and it is sound. We also have some connections to other native groups due to the travels/circumstances of "free people of color" FPOC in the 19th century. They often lived in endogamous communities and married amongst the community only, which is also very typical of native tribes in the late 19th/early 20th century. This is also the case with the Melungeon. Our direct native line goes back to the 1600s. We don't know who was the most recent "fully" native ancestor and IMO the larger amount of concentrated native DNA with my grandfather and his cousin is due to the endogamy which was common in their mother's line through really around 1915. They were both born in the 1930s.
Before the Cherokee arrived in North Carolina, it is believed they lived around the Great Lakes region and moved south after being defeated in warfare. They speak an Iroquoian language like those from upper New York State, including the Mohawks.
I have a lot of DNA Relatives who identify as Lumbee, which is not a federally-recognized tribe. It is a made-up category of tri-racial isolated people mostly from Robeson County in southeastern NC. One of may ancestral surnames is very common in that area, and I match a lot of Locklears, Oxendines, Lowerys, Chavises, etc. which are common Lumbee names. This gives me a window into their genetics since I can see the ethnicity estimates of these people who still live in the Pembroke, NC area. Most are about 25% African, 75% European, and some have a smidgen of Native American DNA. But they identify as "Indian." They are also heavily interrelated, so that each one matches the others at an amount typical of 2nd cousins, suggesting they were isolated and intermarried for many generations. They may be descendants of people who absorbed the settlers who abandoned the Roanoke colony, as well as Spanish merchants, sailors, and their slaves who were shipwrecked off the Carolina coast.
Are you sure this is not a reference to the Westo?
The Westo Indians moved to the Carolinas in the 1700s from the Great Lakes region. I took a course on native history a while ago and the Cherokee are considered to have been in the SE USA in the earliest colonial period. But the Erie and other groups migrated south in the 1700s and "became" the Westo. They also inter-married with and worked with the Cherokee in the slave trade.
Note I also have Robeson County ancestry via the family I mentioned i the previous post. I am related to the Lumbee via the Chavis family. We have many Lumbee surnames in our DNA match list. My grandfather's direct maternal line and his cousins are via the Bass family, who are of Nansemond descent.
I personally don't believe the Roanoke story about the Lumbee and IMO they are similar to my own family in that they have very distant native ancestry from the 1600s/1700s but over the years that ancestry to native groups for many of them has just genetically disappeared. Many of them did claim to be Cherokee during hte early 1900s, including people in my own family. The Guion Miller applications available at the Library of Congress's digital collection provide a wealth of information on families associated with the Lumbee and a majority of them were denied land/monies in association with being Cherokee because they were not related to the Cherokee and usually were descendants of long ago tribes, many of whom no longer exist in great numbers like the Tuscarora, Nansemond, Catawba, Saponi, Meherrin, etc.
Lumbee is a made up name and I'll be honest in that I feel that they should not be federally classified as a tribe as they are primarily African in most instances and IMO in the past they lived together in an effort to skirt being affected by more oppressive laws that targeted African Americans. They claimed to be Indian primarily in an effort to not be deemed a "negro." I know there is a lot of politics surrounding them today and many of them claim to be black Indians. I don't care if they do or not but it is strange to me to try to claim an indigenous heritage when someone wasn't reared in one especially. Most of the Lumbee, like myself, also have a lot of Irish/Scottish and British ancestry, and typically more of the European admixture than native (if they have native). Yet, they are not claiming to be white/Irish/Scottish/Brittish. It is strange.
My fourth great grandfather married a woman named Barbara with an unknown last name. They had four children one was George, my direct ancestor, the other two I can’t remember, and Rebecca.
We have a lot of English in our ancestry and a good deal of German. The area is known for it. It is common to have really thick dark straight hair in my family. And yes some high cheekbone thing going on.
For some reason the Rebecca lineage that I have found on Ancestry has glommed on to Barbara being the daughter of the reigning Indian Chief. There is literally no evidence, just a oral story from one of Rebecca’s daughters. The other three lines — nada. A bunch of us have done our DNA - no proof.
And if it were true, we would be Shawnee, which I believe is Iroquois.
If I had to make a very small wager, I would bet most people touting Cherokee lineage falsely might have swayed by our media over the ages. Starting in 1938 with this ditty that was played at every high school game by our band as the mascot song. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YnNUd7NzTMo
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