Do you agree that diaspora people begin to look like the host country's people after several generations? (German, native)
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I've seen Italians that have been there for centuries that have reddish-brown hair with blue or green or brown eyes. Or brown hair with either blue or brown eyes. Or black hair with brown eyes. Some have an olive colored skin, others can have a pretty light skin color.
I wouldn't say Italy is as diverse as a country like say, Brazil, with respect to skin/hair/eye color and certain facial features, but I feel Italy as a whole can have a wide variety of phenotypes!
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Originally Posted by twinkletwinkle22
When I saw many paintings in Firenze at the Uffizi I was surprised at how many different hair colors and skins colors I saw in them. Italians were not homogenous at all. Frank Sinatra was a blonde with blue eyes. Venice certainly had a lot of blondes and redheads. And Titian painted many redheads too.
What does a textbook Italian look like? Sophia Loren?
I think I used the wrong term. I should have said I look more Turkish than Italian.
I think I used the wrong term. I should have said I look more Turkish than Italian.
Well, let's think about this for a minute. You say both of your parents are supposedly Italian, are all 4 of your grandparents Italian, are all 8 of your great-grandparents Italian, are all 16 of your great-great-grandparents Italian?
Was there any Turkish ancestry in there as you go further back, say into the 1800s and 1700s?
I have never been to Turkey, yet, would love to go one day, I would assume, even in Turkey you have some phenotype variation throughout the population, maybe not as great as Italy with their redheads, blondes and people with blue eyes but at least some.
Don't you think there is some "phenotype overlap" between both Turkey and Italy, if you know what I mean. If you go from the boot of Italy through Greece to Turkey, that's only about 400 miles (straight line). I can definitely see there being some similar phenotypes between the two countries, of course both also have other phenotypes that look nothing alike.
I would say Italy definitely has more phenotype overlap with a place like Turkey, than say India, or China, or Japan.
Sometimes the opposite happens - if you look at what genetics tells us about the earliest peoples in UK, the diaspora basically overwhelmed them, not the other way around.
Sometimes the opposite happens - if you look at what genetics tells us about the earliest peoples in UK, the diaspora basically overwhelmed them, not the other way around.
Well, let's think about this for a minute. You say both of your parents are supposedly Italian, are all 4 of your grandparents Italian, are all 8 of your great-grandparents Italian, are all 16 of your great-great-grandparents Italian?
Was there any Turkish ancestry in there as you go further back, say into the 1800s and 1700s?
I have never been to Turkey, yet, would love to go one day, I would assume, even in Turkey you have some phenotype variation throughout the population, maybe not as great as Italy with their redheads, blondes and people with blue eyes but at least some.
Don't you think there is some "phenotype overlap" between both Turkey and Italy, if you know what I mean. If you go from the boot of Italy through Greece to Turkey, that's only about 400 miles (straight line). I can definitely see there being some similar phenotypes between the two countries, of course both also have other phenotypes that look nothing alike.
I would say Italy definitely has more phenotype overlap with a place like Turkey, than say India, or China, or Japan.
Of course there is phenotype overlap between Italy and Turkey. As far as I know, I don't have Turkish ancestry but I might have. I don't know.
Only if you interbreed.
Jews have very small rate of that, that's why they look what they look for generations.
That would mean they WOULDN'T look like central Europeans.
What happened is even with a small rate, over enough time it would show. Also, it's possible the ancient Jews were a little bit "lighter" than modern day Middle Easterners, if you look at Middle East countries north of Israel, especially Iran, many of them could "pass" for Askenazi Jews. Also, there's a wide range of "color" within the Middle East, quite a few would look like southern Europeans and Ashkenazi Jews, Bashir Assad, the dictator of Syria is a good example. Even many Palestinians as well, they do not all look "brown", look up an American comedian of 100% Palestinian Arab ethnicity named Ray Hanania as a good example.
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Originally Posted by rv199
Of course there is phenotype overlap between Italy and Turkey. As far as I know, I don't have Turkish ancestry but I might have. I don't know.
Many Italians when they take DNA tests find small but significant amounts of Greek, Turkish and sometimes Iberian DNA
This thread is well of the rails. There is no phenotype that defines Italians or Turks. If you look "more Turkish" it because you have adopted the mannerisms and trappings of the culture.
Ashkenazim Jews have a long and fascinating genetic heritage that includes genetic input from the Levant/Greeks/Italians/North Africans/German/touch of Slavic. They are vast genetic differences between them and the Christian Poles, Germans, Russians they lived among. A Jew from Minsk is more genetically similar to a Jew from Berlin than either is to their Christian neighbors. What they all "look like" isn't very important or informational in the age of DNA.
The title is a bit misleading. The Ashkenzi lineage is both European and Middle Eastern. Jewish men immigrated to Europe starting about 1000 years ago in the middle ages. It was largely a male migration and these men took local (central European) wives, and subsequently this population become very endogamic, meaning that after a few generations of "marrying out", the group established rules about who was a suitable marriage partner. To that end, most Ashkenazim are genetically the equivalent of 4th or 5th cousins.
Many Ashkenazim are indistinguishable from their European counterparts, but physical features that distinguish them are present, a fact that has distubingly been used against them in the worst of ways, even in recent history.
The title is a bit misleading. The Ashkenzi lineage is both European and Middle Eastern. Jewish men immigrated to Europe starting about 1000 years ago in the middle ages. It was largely a male migration and these men took local (central European) wives, and subsequently this population become very endogamic, meaning that after a few generations of "marrying out", the group established rules about who was a suitable marriage partner. To that end, most Ashkenazim are genetically the equivalent of 4th or 5th cousins.
Many Ashkenazim are indistinguishable from their European counterparts, but physical features that distinguish them are present, a fact that has distubingly been used against them in the worst of ways, even in recent history.
I have read that this happened in other areas as well. Jewish traders in various areas would take indigenous wives. Jews often were not allowed to own property. They were forced into mercantile lives. Some moved wherever they would be tolerated.
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