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Old 12-03-2020, 08:55 AM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
<snip> In fact, most mixed race today probably have more of them that is nased on non-rapes from slavery times to consensual unions in post-slavery and post-Jim Crow laws time. <snip> .
Are you referring to the United States? If so, I disagree.
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Old 12-03-2020, 12:47 PM
Status: "Hello there..." (set 10 days ago)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lenora View Post
Are you referring to the United States? If so, I disagree.
Yes, that's why I mentioned "Jim Crow." As far as I know, that's the only country that had several laws and reference to them with that name.

Edited to add: The USA is a very big place with different miscegination propensities. I'm sure there is a variance. While in some places most mixed race people maybe from slavery times, in others most could be much more recent. A similar difference is seen with the average appearance of African Americans with a more African look predominating in some areas and a lighter version predominating in others. This one is an assumption of mine and I could be wrong, but I'm willing to be that the highly mixed types are more urban than purer (for lack of a word) types, taking into account that African Americans in general qre probably mostly urban people. By urban I mean living in urban and suburban areas versus rural zones. This hunch of mine is based in the assumption that urban areas tend to be more liberal and modern miscegination is more readily accepted and widespread there than in more rural and small town USA.

Last edited by AntonioR; 12-03-2020 at 01:11 PM..
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Old 12-04-2020, 09:16 AM
 
Location: Colorado (PA at heart)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
There are many other factors too. For example, if most of the population is of mixed race, then most should be assumed to not be from rape.
The vast majority of African Americans, if not all of them, have some European ancestry, technically making them "mixed raced", whether they know it or not. Many of them have no idea they have European ancestry, because it dates back to slavery most of the time. When it occurred more recently, they are usually aware of it, but even that doesn't negate the high probability that there was already also some European ancestry from slavery they may or may not have known about.

I don't want to speak in absolutes, but I have yet to hear about any African American descended from slavery who didn't have some European ancestry from that slavery, regardless of whether there was also a more recent occurrence or not. I remember on WDYTYA, Emmitt Smith got something like 80% African on his DNA test and the expert who gave him his results said that was one of the highest results in Africa she'd ever seen in an African American descended from slavery. Granted, that was several years ago, and I know there's been higher results than that since, and I can't say no one has ever gotten 100% African despite being descended from slavery, but I certainly haven't heard about it.

So certainly, the vast majority of African Americans with European ancestry originates from slavery. Whether that is synonymous with rape is another question. The issue of consent is a tricky one when it comes to slavery, since legally, and arguably, psychologically, slaves are unable to consent. I won't say there weren't relationships between master and slave that may have seemed consensual, but there is a strong argument for something like Stockholm Syndrome, meaning the perceived consent was actually just a survival instinct and therefore it was actually still rape.

So I strongly disagree that in the US, most of the mixed race population should be assumed to not be from rape. Quite the opposite.
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Old 03-18-2021, 07:26 PM
 
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Ok, I did alot of digging through my matches trees and shared dna and most of the puerto ricans I match with have a common ancestor name Alonso Espinosa Lancebo y Olivos who was born in San Juan in the early 1700s. I believe this person is also my ancestor.
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Old 03-18-2021, 08:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
In fact, most mixed race today probably have more of them that is nased on non-rapes from slavery times to consensual unions in post-slavery and post-Jim Crow laws time.
Totally disagree. Interracial mixing becoming more common and accepted is a relatively recent thing. All of the sexual exploitation during slave times was far more broad and impactful and has had time to spread through such a large portion of the Black portion (since the majority by far were Southern slaves).

In fact there was an in-depth study on European DNA within African Americans a while ago. By looking at the sizes of European segments within African Americans they could predict what timeframe the majority of European DNA entering into the African American population likely came from (larger segments means more recent, smaller segments are older etc, a lot of math and science behind it as well).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4289685/

Quote:
Our admixture dates for African Americans provide evidence that African and European mixture occurred prior to 1860
So basically the DNA itself shows that European DNA slowed massively in being introduced into the African American population right around the time slavery ended. Additionally the DNA suggests the vast majority of this DNA entered into the African American population from men.

Quote:
Through comparison of estimates of X chromosome and genome-wide African and European ancestry proportions, we estimate that approximately 5% of ancestors of African Americans were European females and 19% were European males (Table S4).
All of this very strongly supports the majority of European ancestry being from sexual exploitation and rape by slave masters (and other in power white males in the South).

Obviously as generations go on this will shift with more recent mixing of DNA.
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Old Yesterday, 04:23 PM
 
Location: The High Desert
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I think this is more complicated than we might assume. While we are not nearly far enough away in time (in centuries) from the slavery era to think that European contributions to Black Americans' DNA is not due to exploitation and wholesale rape by white slave owners or overseers or sons or others, It is entirely possible that some of that European DNA was from pairings that were absolutely consensual and even through a normal spousal relationship. There is no way to tell but the door ought to be open a crack for that to be considered. Even then, in a consensual/spousal mixed relationship, the black partner might already have European DNA that has been passed down from a earlier ancestral rape so we might never really get away from that issue or be certain that it did not happen. Not all of the European DNA in the children would be from the consensual/spousal pairing.
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Old Today, 10:30 AM
 
Location: The High Desert
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If you can sign on to 23andme there is an interesting research post on the entry page that talks to the question of mixed race.
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