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Old Yesterday, 11:06 AM
 
Location: Cumberland
5,642 posts, read 8,997,150 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tritone View Post
So they're already changing the historical record. Now, people will claim that Johnny Cash's wife was a "woman of color" in the 60s.

So no, Skip Gates is not different from Walter Plecker or Naomi Drake.
I would agree here that self identity does matter. But genetics is independent of that.
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Old Yesterday, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Coast of Somewhere Beautiful
2,494 posts, read 5,056,805 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tritone View Post
...Now, people will claim that Johnny Cash's wife was a "woman of color" in the 60s.
What people will be making that claim? Seriously, in 2021, how many people even know who Vivian Cash was, and how many could possibly care if she was a "woman of color"? Why do I keep feeling like you just want to argue? Perhaps because 80% of your posts are in the "Politics and Other Controversies" forum?

"Finding Your Roots" is a TV show based on genealogical backgrounds of famous people. The DNA makeup of almost very guest is disclosed and discussed. Discussing the fact that Roseanne Cash's maternal line included African American DNA is entirely consistent with this show's premise. If you were offended by it, watch something else.
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Old Yesterday, 12:44 PM
 
Location: Lifelong SoCalian
511 posts, read 194,755 times
Reputation: 1558
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2x3x29x41 View Post
The anomalies in one's ancestry are more interesting than the common elements.

My wife did a DNA test. She has a German name and was quite aware of her German background, as well as her French-Canadian and Scandinavian ancestry. But that small - less than 2% - bit from Iberia is what most caught her eye and intrigued her.

It's the odd, unexpected parts of one's past that tend to fascinate people. At least, those who aren't triggered by such revelations. That's normal.
Whenever I see "Iberian" or "Southern European" DNA mixed in with someone who has a largely Protestant Northern Euro background, I always think it's a possibility of Sephardic Jewish ancestors. Historically, the Sephardic population was very transient after leaving the Iberian peninsula. Many went on to France, Holland, Switzerland, England, the colonies, etc.
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Old Yesterday, 12:48 PM
 
1,860 posts, read 468,212 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PA2UK View Post
On a continental level, yes, about 1-2% or more.

Sub-continental regions are less reliable and people can get high percentages in areas they have no ancestry in, but that's not "noise", it's just the result of neighboring regions having so much genetic overlap.




The SSA is probably just noise, I wouldn't spend time looking for that - anything under 1%, especially if it's a completely different continent you don't have known ancestry from, it's highly likely to just be noise.

The combined 2% Italian and 1.2% Spain/Portugal could theoretically indicate some kind of Southern European ancestry, but there's no assurance of that, it could just be coming from neighboring regions where you might have known ancestry. DNA ethnicity is definitely not an exact science - it's more like an interpretation of your DNA.
Thanks for that...Just what I figured...no other surprises on my DNA test...
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Old Yesterday, 03:07 PM
 
Location: NJ
15,852 posts, read 24,620,117 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tritone View Post
So they're already changing the historical record. Now, people will claim that Johnny Cash's wife was a "woman of color" in the 60s.

So no, Skip Gates is not different from Walter Plecker or Naomi Drake.

Yes, someone edited their wiki pages to reflect the AA ancestor. I wasn't surprised.

Vivian Cash wiki - Born and raised around San Antonio, Texas, Liberto was the daughter of Irene (Robinson) and Thomas Peter Liberto. Her paternal grandparents were from Cefalù, Palermo, Sicily. During her lifetime, Vivian was sometimes thought of as African-American; genealogists from the show Finding Your Roots discovered that one of her maternal great-great-grandmothers, Sarah A. Shields, was a mixed-race woman born into slavery, who was freed along with her eight siblings by their white father

Rosanne Cash wiki - Early life
Cash was born in 1955 in Memphis, Tennessee, to Vivian and Johnny Cash, just as Johnny was recording his first tracks at Sun Records.[6][7] Her maternal grandfather was the son of parents from Cefalù, Palermo, Sicily.[8] During her lifetime, Cash's mother was sometimes thought of African-American; genealogists from the show Finding Your Roots discovered that one of Rosanne's three times maternal great-grandmothers, Sarah A. Shields, was a mixed-race woman born into slavery, who was freed along with her eight siblings by their white father
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Old Yesterday, 05:13 PM
 
6,087 posts, read 8,283,357 times
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He also noted that Johnny Cash also had a smidgen of African-American ancestry, not just his wife. And so does Clint Black. Given the topic of his show, I don't know how he could do his show without pointing out these things that turn up in DNA or family trees - that is the whole point of the show, isn't it?
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Old Yesterday, 05:31 PM
 
Location: The High Desert
10,464 posts, read 5,629,176 times
Reputation: 19597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tritone View Post
So they're already changing the historical record. Now, people will claim that Johnny Cash's wife was a "woman of color" in the 60s.
I really don’t think that we need to worry about the historical record on Johnny Cash’s wife’s DNA. There are other things that will probably eclipse that particular factoid. We have already given it more attention than it needs. The new wiki entry will not likely make it into the history books.
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Old Yesterday, 06:14 PM
 
Location: Austin
14,338 posts, read 8,325,275 times
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I have a very long ancestry on this land, well before america was called america. I am related to an early president, but the most interesting relation was to a very good friend of decades. we found out his great great grandfather was married to my great great aunt. we are related. we just found out about 5 years ago! when my grandmother died 5 years ago she had a long recorded family tree in an old bible i had never seen which showed the ancestry of her family, my family, for 6 generations. no dna testing needed.

Last edited by texan2yankee; Yesterday at 06:27 PM..
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Old Yesterday, 08:21 PM
 
Location: Coast of Somewhere Beautiful
2,494 posts, read 5,056,805 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texan2yankee View Post
...which showed the ancestry of her family, my family, for 6 generations. no dna testing needed.
Sometimes it's better not to be confused by the facts. Keep in mind early family histories going back many generations were frequently passed down verbally between the generations, opening the door to opinions, suppositions, and errors. Our long-time family history traces back to our immigrant who arrived in America in the late 1600's. It has been widely accepted as gospel across many branches of the family, and still serves as documentation in numerous online trees. About 7 years ago, several of us decided to take a Y-DNA test, which promptly blew at least several generations of this tree out of the water. Only now have we about nailed down the generation where the non-paternal event occurred, but we will probably never know the details.

Just saying, a lot like the Internet, just 'cause it's on paper doesn't necessarily make it fact.
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Old Today, 12:40 AM
 
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
6,480 posts, read 3,512,921 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PA2UK View Post
That's not exactly true. It obviously depends on what time period and context we're talking about here, but broadly speaking, blacks and whites have been mixing in the US for centuries. It's just that the resulting child/children are considered "black" and generally grow up in black communities. Studies show that it is indeed uncommon for white people to have black ancestry, but that doesn't mean whites and blacks haven't been mixing for centuries, because it's the complete opposite vice versa. Most, if not all African Americans (who have been in the US for many generations) have some amount (in varying degrees) of European ancestry. Granted, much of that is the result of slavery, not consensual relationships, but it's still "whites and blacks having children together", and it still means that some black Americans are light skinned enough to be able to "pass" for white and in history, frequently did so. And addressing that topic is totally appropriate for the historical/genealogical TV show.
It is absolutely accurate that they did not "invariably" mix. You don't seem to know the meaning of the word.
Synonyms of invariably are the following, per Webster:

"always, aye (also ay), consistently, constantly, continually, ever, forever, incessantly, night and day, perpetually, unfailingly."

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/invariably

Most whites never owned slaves or even came into contact with them, especially whites who lived in areas where there were few to zero Africans and no plantations.

While "some" whites and "some" blacks have had children together, most have not.

One of my earliest direct ancestors arrived on the Mayflower in 1620 and then he and many descendants lived in New England for centuries before moving to other, mostly northern states by far. Others lived entirely in Maine or other New England states. That's true for many other Americans, too.

Jumping to modern times, there are many, maybe most, black Americans who still look very black with wide nostrils, kinky hair and very dark skin. When I was in university I knew many people born and raised in Africa and some of those from lighter tribes of Nigeria who are 100% African yet are much lighter-skinned than NFL players here in the U.S. today.

You are saying there has been far more mixing between black and white in the U.S. than I know to be true.
Where we have agreement is when you state that most of those mixed children lived in the black community. I do agree with you there.

For reference, your post was in response to mine, below:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SFBayBoomer View Post
Widespread color mixing? That's just not the case. They did not "invariably" mix.

Most American families who have been here since the U.S. was founded and before may have heritage mixing in the sense that English and Germans intermarried and had children, then some Irish and or Dutch, perhaps Italian, Portuguese, etc. Whites from Europe did mix, after they had been here for some years.

It is extremely uncommon for whites and blacks to have had children together, especially if whites never lived in areas where blacks lived.
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