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Spend some time in Jackson, WY, Bigfork, MT, Whitefish, MT, and Bozeman, MT and then we'll talk about an unfair judgement.
I've met a lot of very authentic people in Jackson, Bozeman, Whitefish and other towns with great scenery, mountains and lakes. Some people get lucky and have trust funds, most arrange their lives in such a way as to make a community like that a possibility. Maybe instead of judging others, you should consider what prompted you to move somewhere with, apparently, no plan only to retreat in bitterness when reality set in.
We used to say the same thing in Vermont. Nice and pretty but no industry, few jobs, poor pay compared to cost of living.
We moved to upstate NY which is also pretty but my husband got a job here, not for the scenery. Alas, there are few jobs and he's lost his.
So now we are faced with WTH to do. Do we move somewhere that has jobs but 4 months of bad heat and other weather related issues? I mean, at some point you have to make money.
I'll read a national geographic if I want scenery. Right now I guess I'd settle for steady income.
I've met a lot of very authentic people in Jackson, Bozeman, Whitefish and other towns with great scenery, mountains and lakes. Some people get lucky and have trust funds, most arrange their lives in such a way as to make a community like that a possibility. Maybe instead of judging others, you should consider what prompted you to move somewhere with, apparently, no plan only to retreat in bitterness when reality set in.
I went to college in Bozeman, which I consider to be a plan, and I lived near Missoula because I relocated there with a JOB, which I consider to be a plan as well. I am not stupid enough to move somewhere without a job. Yes, I have met some authentic people in those three towns you mentioned as well, but there is a great deal of pretentiousness there as well.
You also can't pay your mortgage or rent with it. I felt compelled to write this after seeing so many people talking about moving to places because they like the scenery. While I will agree that scenery is a bonus to an area, that should always be much more concerned with the wages and whether or not it will keep up with the cost of living. I made the mistake of living in an area and used the incredible scenery to justify my decision. I ended up eating lots of Ramen and macaroni and cheese and barely made ends meet. I also hated the culture of the area. I then moved to an area that was much less scenic and it turned out to be a great move. This was after accumulating a substantial credit card debt just to survive when things like auto repair needed to be done. If there is an important piece of advice I can give anyone looking to relocate this is one of the lessons I learned.
Also, I might add that scenery, especially lakes and ski resorts, tend to attract pretentious people.
Sorry if this seems like a random thread, I just thought this was good advice to put on the General Moving Issues forum.
If I could, I would give you 1000 reps and emblazen this post on every CD city forum. If you want to see the most idiotic reasons for people wanting to move, visit the Portland website.
The reality is far, far from the dream. People see a picture of a mountain or an ocean or a forest or they see a silly TV show about hipsters and think this is the place for them. Some actually want to move here without ever having been here.
They say they are vegans, liberal and green so they feel they have to live here. But they are shocked to find that not everyone who lives here fits this description.
They don't want to hear about the high unemployment, the fierce competiton for jobs other than in the medical or high tech field or the 3% rental vacancy rate. Or the constant rain. Or the high cost of living.
It's a great place to live if one can afford it, doesn't mind the rain and has a job. But it just isn't the Nirvana many believe it to be.
If I could, I would give you 1000 reps and emblazen this post on every CD city forum. If you want to see the most idiotic reasons for people wanting to move, visit the Portland website.
The reality is far, far from the dream. People see a picture of a mountain or an ocean or a forest or they see a silly TV show about hipsters and think this is the place for them. Some actually want to move here without ever having been here.
They say they are vegans, liberal and green so they feel they have to live here. But they are shocked to find that not everyone who lives here fits this description.
They don't want to hear about the high unemployment, the fierce competiton for jobs other than in the medical or high tech field or the 3% rental vacancy rate. Or the constant rain. Or the high cost of living.
It's a great place to live if one can afford it, doesn't mind the rain and has a job. But it just isn't the Nirvana many believe it to be.
If I could give you 1,000 reps I would do it too. My home state of Montana was like this except that instead of being vegan, liberal, or green people tend to believe everyone is a hunter and conservative (not sure the opposite of green). They watch movies like A River Runs Through It, Horse Whisperer, and Legends of the Fall and get this notion of what they think Montana is. They don't consider that even though the western third (the rest is windswept prairie) is pretty, the winters are long, the wages are LOW, the cost of living is HIGH, and many of the locals hate outsiders with a passion. If I had made about $25K more I would have considered staying, but since pretty mountains didn't buy me any food or pay my rent, I took off the rose-colored glasses and moved to Wyoming and a much less scenic area, even though now I can afford to go to the mountains if I need a "fix."
Location: Temporarily in Niagara Falls, Ont. Canada
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I'm in a place right now that has neither nice scenery, nice weather or good, high paying jobs. I'm totally miserable here. I could move about 1 or 2 hours south of here and maybe get a better job but I'd still be hating the area for the long, cold winters, boring landscapes, wrong vibe, etc. It's just not me. I'm totally willing to save up, move out west (again, should have stayed there the first time), and possibly earn less, but live in an area I like, with people I like and weather I like and be happy. I don't mind a bit of rain.
What I'm really hoping to do is transition to working 100% from home (whether self-employed or as an employee) making as much money or more than is needed for my chosen location, and then I can live anywhere, and not need to worry about making ends meet.
Every once in a while, wandering around on the forums, I get fed up with the starry-eyed folk who think that, because a place is pretty and has 'nice' weather, golly, it would be the perfect place for them. So I tell them - sometimes with actual references - about the lousy job situations, the lousy costs of living, the facts that there are so many already-homeless and jobless people wandering around their fair fantasy. The facts that, without a job, a place to live, money in their pocket to start over, or a real plan to get any of the above, they will become a drain on the locals who will resent them. I then get lambasted quite frequently by the other dreamers who insist that 10, 20, 30 years ago they did it, everyone should chase their dreams, la dee da.
Yup, I'm a dream-killer. But mostly I know that these folks will doubtless end up becoming bitter and angry at everyone but themselves when their dream-come-true - doesn't; a drain on either their families or their new locale. Or worse, they won't make it to their dream - their car will break down halfway there, they won't have food or housing or the money to get it repaired; they'll be jobless and homeless and despair of reaching their goal - and, again, the locals will have to come to their aid, either through cash donations to get them back on their feet and on up the road, or already over-strapped tax-supported safety nets.
Then they wonder why so many folks are "against them"! No, we're not against you - we just don't feel that it is your right to demand that other people have to sacrifice so that you can live out your dreams, as so many obviously do. It's the entitlement mindset of "I deserve a job and a home and food and beautiful scenery and perfect weather - no matter what it costs or whom!" that gripes.
If you have a real plan - and a plan B, and a plan C - money in your pocket, a place to live lined up, a real job lined up, and don't have to suck at the overextended teats of the taxpayers in your dream locale or those on the way - then, go for it! But otherwise, you're just being selfish and foolish, and sooner or later, when Darwin comes knocking, you won't be able to pay him - or anyone else. Then, don't bother asking why the locals resent you. You'll know. Or, at least, you should know.
I have seen the heartbreak of people who had to move either back to where they came from or on to a place where they could survive. Too many of them. And all came with the confidence that they were following their dream which would guarantee them success. But none came with a plan.
And for those who want to move to the "dream" places where everyone else wants to move, it is going to be even more difficult it they do not have money or a job. They cannot imagine their dream is the same as so many others.
On thing I have noticed too is that while many want to move because conditions are not ideal where they are, they automatically assume everything will be better where they want to move. They take for granted the good features of their present living locations and don't even think these may not exist where they want to go.
For example, the place where they presently live may have reasonable and abundant rentals in good neighborhoods. So the thought never crosses their minds that the place where they want to go may be just the opposite. One sees this time and time again on the Portland forum. People want two bedroom apartments in the best neighborhoods for $500-$600 because that's all it costs them where they are. But in Portland you cannot rent a birdhouse for that amount of money in a slum.
A lot of times I think it's a case of the grass being greener. Yes Oregon has a lot of green grass but you can't eat it.
Every once in a while, wandering around on the forums, I get fed up with the starry-eyed folk who think that, because a place is pretty and has 'nice' weather, golly, it would be the perfect place for them. So I tell them - sometimes with actual references - about the lousy job situations, the lousy costs of living, the facts that there are so many already-homeless and jobless people wandering around their fair fantasy. The facts that, without a job, a place to live, money in their pocket to start over, or a real plan to get any of the above, they will become a drain on the locals who will resent them. I then get lambasted quite frequently by the other dreamers who insist that 10, 20, 30 years ago they did it, everyone should chase their dreams, la dee da.
Yup, I'm a dream-killer. But mostly I know that these folks will doubtless end up becoming bitter and angry at everyone but themselves when their dream-come-true - doesn't; a drain on either their families or their new locale. Or worse, they won't make it to their dream - their car will break down halfway there, they won't have food or housing or the money to get it repaired; they'll be jobless and homeless and despair of reaching their goal - and, again, the locals will have to come to their aid, either through cash donations to get them back on their feet and on up the road, or already over-strapped tax-supported safety nets.
Then they wonder why so many folks are "against them"! No, we're not against you - we just don't feel that it is your right to demand that other people have to sacrifice so that you can live out your dreams, as so many obviously do. It's the entitlement mindset of "I deserve a job and a home and food and beautiful scenery and perfect weather - no matter what it costs or whom!" that gripes.
If you have a real plan - and a plan B, and a plan C - money in your pocket, a place to live lined up, a real job lined up, and don't have to suck at the overextended teats of the taxpayers in your dream locale or those on the way - then, go for it! But otherwise, you're just being selfish and foolish, and sooner or later, when Darwin comes knocking, you won't be able to pay him - or anyone else. Then, don't bother asking why the locals resent you. You'll know. Or, at least, you should know.
I couldn't give you a reputation so I just need to say, well stated Granny.
Every once in a while, wandering around on the forums, I get fed up with the starry-eyed folk who think that, because a place is pretty and has 'nice' weather, golly, it would be the perfect place for them. So I tell them - sometimes with actual references - about the lousy job situations, the lousy costs of living, the facts that there are so many already-homeless and jobless people wandering around their fair fantasy. The facts that, without a job, a place to live, money in their pocket to start over, or a real plan to get any of the above, they will become a drain on the locals who will resent them. I then get lambasted quite frequently by the other dreamers who insist that 10, 20, 30 years ago they did it, everyone should chase their dreams, la dee da.
Yup, I'm a dream-killer. But mostly I know that these folks will doubtless end up becoming bitter and angry at everyone but themselves when their dream-come-true - doesn't; a drain on either their families or their new locale. Or worse, they won't make it to their dream - their car will break down halfway there, they won't have food or housing or the money to get it repaired; they'll be jobless and homeless and despair of reaching their goal - and, again, the locals will have to come to their aid, either through cash donations to get them back on their feet and on up the road, or already over-strapped tax-supported safety nets.
Then they wonder why so many folks are "against them"! No, we're not against you - we just don't feel that it is your right to demand that other people have to sacrifice so that you can live out your dreams, as so many obviously do. It's the entitlement mindset of "I deserve a job and a home and food and beautiful scenery and perfect weather - no matter what it costs or whom!" that gripes.
If you have a real plan - and a plan B, and a plan C - money in your pocket, a place to live lined up, a real job lined up, and don't have to suck at the overextended teats of the taxpayers in your dream locale or those on the way - then, go for it! But otherwise, you're just being selfish and foolish, and sooner or later, when Darwin comes knocking, you won't be able to pay him - or anyone else. Then, don't bother asking why the locals resent you. You'll know. Or, at least, you should know.
I mostly agree with you. Planning is key. That said - moving without a job is not always the worst thing in the world. For one thing it is very hard to network somewhere you don't live. It's just a fact of life it's much easier to find a job in a place once you live there. That said, to me there are several prerequisites to moving without a job:
1. At least some savings.
2. A place to stay. This means money to afford a place, or some other plan (e.g., if you are young, maybe you can stay with your parents if they are on board with your plan). In this economy, to be safe, you better plan on a year.
3. A reasonable chance of getting a job. By that I mean, the field you want a job in needs to be a field that is strong in the area you are moving. You can't move to a small town in Iowa planning to get a job as an engineer. It isn't realistic - it's fantasy.
I myself did this - I left my job in a small town and moved to the DC area to be closer to family and friends and in a major metro area. But I had some savings, I was able to stay with my mom (and contribute some to expenses), and I have a legal and contracts background, so getting a job in DC eventually was an eminently reasonable expectation. Ultimately it took about 7 months - longer than I would have liked - but I'm still glad I made the move. If I hadn't up and done it, I probably would have never found the job nor the field I am now in. But I had a plan and a reasonable approach.
This "I have $800 and I'm going to pack the car and drive" stuff is nonsense, especially in this economy.
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